Judaism For Dummies, please!?

[italofrank]

What is, in brief, the definition of, and difference between, the Torah and the Talmud, and which of the two is considered the more important by the Jews?

Is it correct to say that the Jews' Old Testament is the same one as the Christians' (obviously, I know that the New T'ment is not shared by both!)? I have suddenly realized that after almost sixty years, I know very little about the Jews (other than that the greatest Jews who ever lived were Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky, and Noam Chomsky!).

When and where did the Reformed Jews become established? Other than the 'Orthodox,' the 'Reformed,' and the 'Messianic' Jews, what other branches of Judaism are there in the world? Do they all accept each others' legitimacy and authenticity?

Last question: Before their existence as slaves in Egypt, where did the Jews physically, geographically originate? Any mitochondrial evidence as to their ethnic origins?

 

[Ninammmm]

The Torah is usually defined as the first five books of the Bible, i.e. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deutoronomy. The Talmud is more like commentary on Jewish law, etc. It is divided up into the Gemorah and the Mishnah. They each have severeal volumes. The Torah is more widely known and probably more respected as well amongst Jews.
Yes, the Jew's Old Testament is the same as the Christians'. The New Testament is only for Christians, seeing as how it involves the sotry of Jesus.
There are lots of branches of Judaism, including Reconstructionist, Reform, Messianic, Conservative, Orthodox, and Hasidic. I'm pretty sure that they all acknowlege that the other gropus exist, although some aren't very welcoming of others.
Before slavery in Egypt, Jews mostly lived around present-day Israel, and occasionally other areas of the Middle East.

Hoped this helped!

 

[AmbivalentLAUghter]

Torah, strictly speaking, is the first five books of the Jewish bible. Sometimes people use the term rather loosely to include the whole Tanakh (Torah, Prophets and Writings). Torah is the most important, the rest of the Tanakh also. Talmud is the commentary - there's so much that is only sketched in the Tanakh and Talmud is an attempt - often portrayed through arguments and disagreements between scholars - to discern what was really meant, particularly in terms of actual practice.

We don't have an "Old Testament". That is the term Christians use (in contradistinction to their "New Testament") for the translations they use of our original Hebrew Tanakh. There are small differences in the books included (as there are between Catholic and Protestant versions of the bible) and the way they're divided up, but more importantly, the translations are at times seriously inaccurate, quite out of kilter with the original Hebrew.

It's REFORM Judaism, not Reformed - and it began in Germany in the early 19th century. It's changed quite a bit since then - interestingly, it is now going back to many of the traditions that were discarded originally. US Reform is different from European Reform, which is more like the Conservative movement in the US. The main US movements are Orthodox (which includes a broad swathe from Chassidic/Charedi through to Modern Orthodox), Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist. In the UK, where I am, we have the Chassidic and Charedi and Modern Orthodox groups, Masorti, Reform and Liberal.

"Messianic Judaism", so-called, is not a movement within Judaism. It is a group which accepts that Jesus is the messiah - a belief entirely at odds with the Jewish concept of the messiah which is clear that he will be an ordinary human, absolutely definitely not a miracle worker, not resurrected on his own. and fulfilling all the 23 prophecies that Jews have of him within one normal human lifetime. The prophecies cited by "Messianic Jews" and Christians are not seen as prophecies by Jews, and in some cases seem, by our understanding of Hebrew, to be seriously mistaken. So in terms of acceptance of others' legitimacy and authenticity - no Jewish group accepts "Messianic Jews" as legitimate and authentically Jewish.

Orthodox Jews do not accept conversions performed by rabbis within the other movements. Nonetheless, they generally respect all Jews and their sincerity.

The history of the early group of Jews is complex, but we generally accept that the religion as such started with Abraham's rejection of his father's idols and adoption of a single, non-corporeal divinity. He'd come from the area we now know as Iraq and journeyed through the region to the are we now know as Israel. People have done various mitochondrial studies, but while there seems to be evidence that some Jews of today are genetically related to an early Middle Eastern population, it's important to remember that Judaism is a religion, not a race. There have always been converts and no-one (except Hitler and those who would ally with him) believes that all Jews are direct descendants of the earlier inhabitants of that region.

More interesting is the fact that Hebrew, retained as the key language among Jews for millennia, is a Semitic language, closely related to Arabic and Amharic.

 

[Zvi]

@Shmoopy:

Eruvin 21b, Talmud Bavli (Soncino edition)
"Raba made the following exposition: What is the purport of the Scriptural text: And, furthermore my son, be admonished: Of making many books etc. My son, be more careful in [the observance of] the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah, for in the laws of the Torah there are positive and negative precepts; but, as to the laws of the Scribes, whoever transgresses any of the enactments of the Scribes incurs the penalty of death. In case you should object: If they are of real value why were they not recorded [in the Torah]? Scripture stated: ‘Of making many books there is no end’.13 And much study is a weariness of flesh. Papa son of R. Aha b. Adda stated in the name of R. Aha b. Ulla: This16 teaches that he who scoffs at the words of the Sages will be condemned to boiling excrements. (Ecclesiastes 12:12) "And extensive study (lahag) is physically exhausting." Rav Papa bar Rav Acha bar Ada said in the name of Rav Acha bar Ula: This teaches that everyone who mocks (mal'ig) the words of the sages will be punished in burning excrement. Rava attacked: It does not say la'ag but lahag. Rather, whoever studies (hogeh) them will taste delectable meat."

Notice the translation does not say "disobey" but it says "mock." That changes the meaning. Also, the Bible itself says that mockery of holiness or mockery of holy figures is an action of a foolish person. And it is meant as a literal thing either, it is explaining how serious the commandment is in the Torah to listen to the Rabbis.

Now what was this passage really saying? one needs to realize that the Rabbis often would encode their writings to conceal and reveal many truths. You cannot take these writings literally.

Be more careful of the Sages teachings. The Written Torah is in stone, unchangeable, the Sages are human and ever evolving in perspective.
Because of the commandment in Deuteronomy we are obligated to listen to the Sages, the Sages were appointed by G-d to share this wisdom with us and it is crucial that we listen to their teachings and instructions. But to be more careful of them because they are human, which is why the Sages continue to deliberate and debate in the recordings of the many discussions and commentary.

To be more careful of increasing perspective by seeing through all the possibilities and angles. This is why the making of many books there is no end, because there are infinite perspectives.


Devarim (Deuteronomy) 17
8 If there arise a matter too difficult for you in judgment, between bloodshed, between lawsuits or assaults, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within your gates: then shall you arise, and get yourself and them into the place which HaShem Elokecha shall choose;
9 And you shall come unto the Kohanim (Priests) and the Levi'yim (Levites), and unto the Shofet (Judge, Dayin, Rabbi) that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall show you the sentence of judgment:
10 And you shall do according to the sentence, which they of that place which HaShem shall choose shall show you; and you shall observe and do according to all that they inform you:
11 According to the sentence of the Torah which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment which they shall tell you, you shall do: you shall not decline from the manner in which they shall show you, to the right hand, nor to the left.

 

[DAravahlJBC]

answer: Torah is always the utmost in importance. The Talmud clarifies the Torah, it is the commentary by sages on the Torah.

No, the Christian OT is NOT the same as the Jewish Tanakh.

You're referencing atheists who were born Jews but rejected their religion. That hardly makes them "great" to Jews.

search:
aish.com
simpletoremember
http://www.jewfaq.org/index.htm
chabad Judaism

 

[BMBtGirlt]

The Torah - written law given by G-d at Mt. Sinai
The Talmud - originally oral law (now written), the explanation of the Torah by the Sages with additional laws as well

The Torah and Talmud are equally important because the complement each other. With out the Talmud, the Torah could not be followed properly.

Jews have the Torah, it should not be refered to as the Old Testament (Jews' or Christians). The people listed as the greatest Jews are not "great" by Jewish standards.

Reform Judaism was established in Germany in the mid 1800s.

There is also a branch called "Conservative Judaism." "Messianic Jews" are generally not Jewish at all. It's just a ploy by Christians to trap innocent and unassuming Jews. There is also a relatively new group called "Reconstructionist Judaism." The order of observance goes like this, if I'm not mistaken:

Orthodox
Conservative
Reform
Reconstructionist (It might be before reform, but I'm not sure)

Each group accepts the groups above it to be legitamate.

The Jews first lived in Mesopotamia. Actually they weren't really Jews then, untill they taken out of Egypt and given the Torah. Genetically, Jews are seen to be more closely related than any other ethnic group. The genetic markers of Sephardi Jews (from the middle east, north africa, and iberian penninsula) are similar to those of the people who live in the area.