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<blockquote data-quote="airmanis" data-source="post: 1684545" data-attributes="member: 642818">Whining!? Val: &quot;If there was an all knowing god, there would be no free will, because if everything was known, we would be puppets following the predestined route of the known.As free will is evident in chaos, that rules out the posibility of an all knowing god, because something can&#039;t be known and unknown at the same time. Chaos is born in the unkown.&quot; 1. The debate over the existance of &quot;GOD&quot; does not automatically imply its benevolance. Even if it were semi-intelligent (or more so than us), would it be IMpossible for us to make discoveries on our own? Consider a humans relationship with a pet. I come home to find the dog in the garbage. I am upset because I did not consider the dog would get into the garbage, but does that change the fact that the dog was infact in the garbage?2. It has recently been scientifically noted that as much as we would like to believe in our own free will, subconciously our mind has predetermined our actions. Our conscious mind then assumes that it has come up with the notion on its own, and through years of listening to these thoughts we have conditioned ourselves to believe that we are acting completely on our own free will. In a way we are puppets - ironically, to ourselves.This can-of-circular-logic-worms is a tricky one. I have still not convinced myself one way or another whether &quot;GOD&quot; exists (if I had, could I truely be sure anyhow?), though I have theories. I honestly think however that this question exists simply to satisfy rhetorical logic and as such I have no desire to answer it.(The preceeding has been a previously recorded contemplation of Ian&#039;s subconcious mind.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="airmanis, post: 1684545, member: 642818"] Whining!? Val: "If there was an all knowing god, there would be no free will, because if everything was known, we would be puppets following the predestined route of the known. As free will is evident in chaos, that rules out the posibility of an all knowing god, because something can't be known and unknown at the same time. Chaos is born in the unkown." 1. The debate over the existance of "GOD" does not automatically imply its benevolance. Even if it were semi-intelligent (or more so than us), would it be IMpossible for us to make discoveries on our own? Consider a humans relationship with a pet. I come home to find the dog in the garbage. I am upset because I did not consider the dog would get into the garbage, but does that change the fact that the dog was infact in the garbage? 2. It has recently been scientifically noted that as much as we would like to believe in our own free will, subconciously our mind has predetermined our actions. Our conscious mind then assumes that it has come up with the notion on its own, and through years of listening to these thoughts we have conditioned ourselves to believe that we are acting completely on our own free will. In a way we are puppets - ironically, to ourselves. This can-of-circular-logic-worms is a tricky one. I have still not convinced myself one way or another whether "GOD" exists (if I had, could I truely be sure anyhow?), though I have theories. I honestly think however that this question exists simply to satisfy rhetorical logic and as such I have no desire to answer it. (The preceeding has been a previously recorded contemplation of Ian's subconcious mind.) [/QUOTE]

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