13 Dead, 30 wounded

[maylz]

Could be, but that seems awfully coincidental to me. Seems to me that if it was job-related stress, the shooting would take place at his daily work area, not randomly around a bunch of deploying soldiers.



I don't see you saying the same thing to people making "idle speculation" that his motive was likely job-related stress comparable to an office shooting. My speculation is no more speculative than their speculation.

This is a discussion forum. I, like everybody else here, am discussing the issue with the information that is currently known.

 

[SAGI]

false, bigoted and all too common.

What evidence have you seen? Are you on the investigation team? Are you psychic?
So far all I think we can say is the following:

1) The killer was a serving officer in the US Army.
2) The killer was a muslim.
3) The killer was soon to be deployed to Afghanistan.

Everything else is hear say or rumour. There is no indication that he sought out soldiers about to be deployed, in fact item 3 above would, if anything, indicate coincidence as he himself would have been attending the Readiness Centre.
There is no evidence that he held extremist or anti-American views. Plenty of rumour and hear say, but no evidence - in fact wouldn't his being a member of the US Army suggest that he was a patriot?

But the connection wouldn't have been made automatically. If a Christian officer, there would need to be some trigger to indicate religious beliefs being a motivating factor. In this instance the guy's name and skin colour were all that was needed.

 

[bananj6]

Well I can buy that about the readiness center but that's where all the wounded and murdered were. This readiness center was in what they are calling the largest military base in the world so it's hard to believe there were no combat troops there. I only did 3 years in the marines so I'm not a military expert but I've never been to a base that didn't have combat trained troops on it and when a military base gets attacked it's the military's job to deal with it.

 

[Unicorn]

Not conclusive as of yet, but not idle speculation based on bigotry or psychics either:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07suspect.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1257550453-DxHqn6tG7dliANgdISjBgg



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html

 

[RielRie]

key word there 'a law enforcement official'. That makes it speculation as far as I'm concerned.

If it wouldn't count in a court of law, it shouldn't count in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately, most people are more interested in gossip than the truth.

 

[archery_dave]

That might be because it'll be several months if not years before the 'truth' (........or what we are permitted to hear as the truth) comes out.

 

[jpayne1324]

The New York Times, possibly the most respected newspaper in United States, choosing to keep a law enforcement officer's name confidential in a story does not reduce the story to the level of internet speculation in my opinion. We can agree to disagree.



I disagree. Hearsay is not admissible in court in most circumstances, for example, but most people rely on hearsay all the time to get through their daily lives. Likewise, unsworn written statements don't count in a court of law, but we use them in real life in a near-continual basis.

I wouldn't send a man to jail based upon a New York Times story relying upon an unnamed FBI source, but it certainly is enough to help me form a tentative opinion until further information is discovered. And that tentative opinion is no less valid than the tentative opinion that others here have expressed that this was just workplace stress boiling over.

 

[proper]

The law enforcement officer's willingness to break procedure and talk to the NYT (if he/she was authorised to do it, why the anonymity) raises questions about his/her credibility.


I wouldn't use hear say to judge anything of consequence in my daily life. People are too complex; everyone has their own motives.

You are, of course, free to hold an opinion, just don't claim it is based on evidence.

I haven't expressed that opinion (I dont think...I'm too tired to go back through my posts and check my wording), I just raised it as another perfectly valid possibility. Possibilities don't require evidence or proof, merely a lack of disproof.

 

[volcomchick28]

There are plenty of combat troops, but none on scene and armed. The officer that shot him just happened upon him by chance.

"Lt. Gen. Bob Cone, Fort Hood's coofftopicnding general, described Munley as a "trained, active first responder" who acted quickly after she "just happened to encounter the gunman."

 

[JohnnyW]

May 20, 2009 post by username "NidalHasan" on Scribd. It is still under investigation whether this is the same individual.



http://www.scribd.com/NidalHasan

I added the boldface.

 

[murphywingedspur]

I do agree with you to a certain extent, but posting pictures of him in traditional Arabic garments for one does seem a little bigoted don't you think?

I mean what does it have to do with the shoot out? To reinforce the fact that he is Muslim?

I am just saying that they made the connection to his religion much faster before any solid evidance on his motive surfaced.

 

[x123equestrian]

Is this the CCTV footage that is being played on the news? I think they are showing that because it was the most recent images of him before the incident.

 

[reagant]

For me, the fact that he screamed "God is great" in arabic before he started shooting caused me to think that his religion was a greater motivator than anything else. If they had found out later that he happened to be a muslim from his records, that would be something else.

As it is, if a christian screamed something about Jesus before shooting a place up, wouldn't people be thinking the same thing? It might be different circumstances (I don't know) but it does not seem a huge jump to conclusions.

 

[Jaimeliz]

If he actually dressed like this on a somewhat-regular basis, why wouldn't it be proper to use one of these images? Far from all of the pictures of him in the media involve traditional Muslim garb (CNN using him in military uniform for a headline picture), but some articles do use pictures of him in such garb. If he had only dressed this way once, or only for a major holiday, and everybody used that one picture for their story, I would agree with the "bigoted" comment.

But the fact is, it appears Mr. Nidal did dress in traditional Muslim clothing on a somewhat regular basis. For example, the morning of the shooting, surveillance video of him buying groceries at a convenience store shows him in traditional Muslim garb:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.suspect/index.html

Similarly,



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07forthood.html?_r=1&hp

If he dressed that way regularly, what is wrong with showing a picture of him dressed in that manner? Isn't it more manipulative for a media source to exclude a large portion of the pictures they have of a murderer, selecting only certain ones to ensure that he is viewed in a certain light?

And to get back to the question of his motive:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07forthood.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07forthood.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

 

[SnowKidtisbackagain2t]

But she was a cop called to the scene. Military personel were alrerady on the base even if they weren't armed and ready right at that moment it would have been faster to get their people there. I guess the problem is that we will never know how many of those 43 people were shot after the cops were called and while they were waiting for them to arrive.

 

[aessamenevrah]

I drew the conclusion that he wouldn't dress as often due to the fact that he is in the military and would be in uniform most of the time.

I understand that was erroneous, but his religion is mentioned much more as a possible motive, more than work-related stress.

Screaming religious phrases does not necessarily mean it was religiously motivated. It could haven been the heat of battle.

 

[madblonde1971]

True. But I would expect something like that from someone raised in an islamic culture such as Kuwait more than from someone raised in America.

Either way it turns out, I do not think that it is out of line to suspect religion was a motive when a religious phrase was shouted out. As I said, I don't know the cultural things, but in this culture if someone shouted something from the bible before doing the same thing religion would be at the top of the list of suspected motivations.

 

[judyw1950]

Now that is a funny comment in a serious thread. ROTFLMAO
Is it 1975 again? The Gray Lady under Pinch Salzburger is now known by us unwashed Plebeians as having the journalistic standards of a streetwalking whore. Breaking news… the NYT now reports and confirms that "the largest Christian mass suicide ever at Fort Hood, Texas” dateline by their young ace reporter Jayson Blair. (Satire using a NYT internal scandal for the overseas folks reading).

BTW when can we expect NBC TV's Saturday Night Live does a comedic skit mocking Obama public statement - his babbling verbal diarrhea - before even mentioning this shooting event. Get we give me a shout out to Chief Firewater of the Connecticut Casino Mohicans… doh! You know, as Bush’s behavior was mocked on the morning of 9/11 sitting in the kid’s classroom. {insert the crickets chirping sound here}

Am I the only one shocked to be reading stories and think maybe, just maybe members of THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES would have more ready access to weapons and not have to rely on civilians to protect them or their base’s perimeter security? I mean when a large US college campus may have more students packing heat than soldiers at a large military base is there something wrong with this picture???

 

[Brainbabe]

Anyone who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan can tell you how Arabic traditions and culture are tightly interwined with religion (Islam in most cases).

Plus I don't think it's out of line, in a matter of fact I suspect it's religiously motivated, but I don't think the main focus should be that.

Nevertheless, even though I am against the death penalty, I would not mind it this time, not at all.

If he murdered in the name of God, and killed those men and women who made the greatest sacrifice for this nation, then let him burn in hell for it.

 

[rumblefighting]

I am not familiar with te New York Time's crediability, which I have been told is pretty crediable although liberal, but I believe your question about the U.S. Armed Forces reaction to this situation under the circumstances has been answered accordingly, that's if you read the thread.