13 Dead, 30 wounded

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chaosg

New member
But he's not from Afghanistan or Iraq. He was born and raised in the United States. So shouting "Allah Ackbar" in the middle of a gunfight (or right before it, depending on the account) is certainly noteworthy.



Why on earth should the discussion about a mass-murder not focus in large part on the murderer's motive?
 
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jstlookather

Member
I should have clarified. The New York Times is the most respected news source among American liberals in my opinion. American conservatives overwhelmingly look to FoxNews as their news source of choice, though some high-brow conservatives rely first and foremost on the Wall Street Journal.

I didn't make this distinction because I could tell you were pretty liberal, but seeing Quincyma80's reaction, I should have.
 
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gmpros

New member
err... I'm guessing you're not in the military and haven't spent much time on bases. As was pointed out earlier in this thread... it's not as if soldiers in US bases are walking around armed for war. Seriously. A very large part of the reason they are not armed is to prevent internal conflicts and to prevent theft and resale of ammunition and weapons. So it's not in the least surprising that given the location and the purpose of that location that the soldiers weren't armed. In general those that are armed are MP's. Since we don't know the particulars of the layout of the base it's really nothing more than conjecture for us to say what should have happened.

So really people... do the homework about how bases and the military work before getting all incredulous about it.
 
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PabloN

Member
You're right, I don't know why I made that distinction



I didn't mean that. Let me re-word it:

'I don't think the main focus should be his possible religious motive.'
 
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Maximus_Decimus_Meridius

New member
This is the second time I've been called a Liberal.

Funny thing is, I googled it the first time, and I found the classical definition acceptable, but when I was called a Liberal the first time, it was almost as if the person was was insulting me?
 
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londonboy

New member
There have been incidents here in the United States where someone commited terrorist acts while using the Christian religion for justification most notably the killing of abortion doctors and supporters of the same. Yet our Christian teachings do not condone violence. The New Testament contains numerous passages where Jesus condemmed violence. Nor does any of the larger Christian-based churches or orginizations support terrorist activities. Talking about Christian extremists is no more than an effort to cover the recent shootings were by a Muslim extremist.

There are pictures all over the television and newspapers here of the suspect wearing Muslim clothing. The phrase shouted was in Arabic. The press has interviewed co-workers who stated the suspect made remarks of an extreme nature based on his Muslim beliefs. There are even confirmed reports of an FBI investigation based on what the suspect had previously remarked on the internet. The evidence brought forward clearly suggests this attack was motivated be extreme religious beliefs.

How often do we see the words Muslim extremist and terrorist attack in the same article? Hardly uncommon to say the least. Yet any mention of Christian extremists or for that matter any other religion have been scarce here.
 
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JessaMotivatedbypeace

Member
That Scribd article is pretty benign really. He expresses no support for those actions, he merely compares it to other cases of soldiers sacrificing themselves for their cause. I'm not sure I agree with his conclusions, but they are hardly extremist in nature.
 
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PrimordiusDrool

Member
No it's not.

He didn't strap a bomb to his body and blow himself up, nor does he say in that article that doing so would be a good idea.

As I said, I believe the conclusion he reaches is wrong, but I can see why he has reached them.
 
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zackw

New member
People, I did read the thread posts – and I asked it almost as a rhetorical question.

I understand that Soldiers, Sailors and Marines can’t all be walking around 24x7 with M16s etc. lock and loaded with safeties off, because of theft issues, interpersonal conflicts etc.

But for clarification, another way to ask and make my salient point – what were the security protocols thirty years ago on military bases for a comparison? Any grizzled old veterans on MAP want to chime in?

In other words before pabulum-puking, political correctness infested The Western World like a fifth column virus. Or weakness resulting from pure greed – as in millions $$$ awarded in civilian contractor service deals to companies who senior management just happen to be married to say… elected officials.

To whit, are THE CURRENT bureaucratic policies within our respective militaries - spawned from politicians’ pressure - continuing to make our servicemen less secure, and as a result they pay for this malfeasance with their lives?

Just as it is valid to examine and review “rules of engagement” policies in the field, as was in the Beirut Barracks or another example - the USS Cole terrorist bombing attack back in October 2000, or maybe today in Afghanistan or Texas???
 
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RaeRae1

Member
Surely they have armed MPs – military police?

I guess in the chaos, by the time anyone realised what was happening, people were already dead.

How terrible. Makes you wonder – is all of this just to keep some corrupt politicians in power in Afghanistan? Is it worth it?
 
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ChadP

Member
There are a few issues. First is the jurisdictional situation, in most cases local law enforcement works with the provost marshal. Local law enforcement maintains jurisdiction on post and frequently engages in joint exercises and training with MPs. So it’s not unusual to see local law enforcement on post.
Second, hearing gunfire on post is relatively normal because of the shooting ranges.
Third, from the latest reports the whole incident was over in 5 minutes. With 911 being called well after it was underway.
However, I’m quite familiar with the problems of outsourcing services we used to handle ourselves (and that’s a big can of worms to open).
 
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VictoriaFrobisher

New member
Although this may be a surprise to many people, including me BTW, believe it or not the last US MILTARY EXECUTION happened way back in 1961.

That’s forty-eight years ago!

Maybe the US authorities will transfer prosecution of the the civilians murdered (1 confirmed so far) or wounded over to the State of Texas?

…and it has NOT been 48 years since the last execution in Texas!!!
 
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RODNEYD

Member
Anybody think thats its more than coincidence that this happened a few days after 5 British troops were killed by a sleeper/assassin/coward. He has probaly been planning this since he first enlisted. I can never understand how we are at war with Muslim nations and yet we let them have jobs in high positions in our armed forces and intelligence services. I would hate to be one of the UK/US troops out in Afghanistan/Iraq as even though they are trying to help them they can't turn their back because any of them could put a bullet in their back given a half chance.

I don't understand why we are still out there, we should have gone into Iraq and grabbed saddam and got out of there and the same with Afghanistan, taken out the threats and pulled out. Let them sort their own problems out, if they want to kill each other carry on. Our countries are too soft, trying to care for the enemy all the time.
 
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shortyrap

New member
You're right, we should kick all of the muslims out of the armed forced/intelligence services/anywhere they could do damage. Afterall, they're all the same under that suspicious skin colour.

Throw them all in big internment camps and be done with them!
 
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