A question about self control please

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BoxerMom

New member
OK let me ask this the best way I can. My verbalizing skills in text are not as good as I would like but hang with me on this.
I know alcoholics and some of my best friends have this problem *one in particular*... or some have had this addiction and yes I know it is horrible and a debilitating condition.

But why can't someone enjoy a good alcoholic beverage and have a good time without taking this beverage and acting like its the last time in the world they will have a drink? And for the ones who have recovered *which I REALLY don't fully grasp the meaning of think that they will never be able to have a social drink and don't even think they will ever be able to again.

Is this really a medical condition *alcoholism* which they say it is or is this a self control issue that they need to come to grips with and enjoy life without going overboard and out of control when drinking.........
Please help me understand.
 
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Katerina

Member
Let me ask you this in return: If an activity had cost you your health, job, relationships, and substantial amounts of money--and if said activity was simply a question of exercising some self-restraint--don't you think you'd stop?

It's not that alcoholics lack the self-awareness to know what their use is costing them. They're typically very clear on the consequences of their actions. But they're unable to stop on their own. Experts have pointed to both psychosocial and physiological reasons for it.

As for your friends saying that they can't have a social drink every now and again, they're right. They can't. It doesn't work that way for them. That's just opening the flood gates for a full-blown relapse.

It sounds like that bothers you for some reason. Yes?


Stuart
 
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YamsterHunter

Member
Thanks for your reply
Yes it does bother me somewhat thinking that even being able to have a friendly social drink is not an option for an individual.And it may be wrong of me but I feel it may be a weakness in them that they should be able to overcome and not be so wild and uncontrolled in their drinking if they just can't even have a social drink.
This wild inner uncontrolled need should be worked through and not become a crippling major event all their life.I am thinking I am wrong but oh well I wanted to ask.It may be that all that self consuming and they can't control themselves.
 
911l119l999

911l119l999

Member
If you have ever had a mental or physical dependency on something then you wouldn't view your friends issue with alcohol from the viewpoint you are observing it from.

Let me ask you this:

Do you feel that you are a better person than your friend as you are able to excercise restraint when it comes to alcohol?

Im not trying to flame either.
 
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MetaKnight3

New member
I'm no expert, Rivend, but I have spent about a year working in detox and a 30-day residential substance abuse training program. I've done individual and group counseling with substance abusers.

Trust me on this one: As much as YOU wish they could just have a social drink with friends and not have it be a big deal, they wish that for themselves a hell of a lot more.

Whatever the mechanisms are at play in addiction, one thing is clear: It's a lot more complicated than simply keeping themselves in check. People's entire lives have been ruined by this. More than just an evening out with friends. To you, it's an inconvenience. To them, it's a debilitating condition.

I'm not saying there's no responsibility in it. People can seek treatment. They can follow protocols. They can make real, necessary changes in their lives. What they can't do is have a casual drink (or even be around people casually drinking) like it's no big deal.

They say that nobody is ever a recovered alcoholic. You're either drinking or you're in recovery. Keeping yourself clean is a lifestyle. Not something you can drop into and out of again.


Stuart
 
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ArmenA

New member
Don't be mad at me but yes I do in that regard but not in any other things.And also I am aware of all the pain and suffering alcohol as caused but maybe the million dollar answer is how to overcome this problem since it is a legal activity.
 
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BondiBoy53

New member
There is a physiological reason for the addiction, as in an actual part of them is preventing them from a normal healthy relationship with booze. I remember reading a few years ago that there is a gene or collection of genes that predisposes an individual to addiction. That's not to say that it is a certainty, just more likely.
 
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cd

Member
Addiction is primarily an issue of self-control. My personal vice is chocolate - I can limit myself to one or two good quality chocolates, but if Dairy Milk is involved I can't limit myself to one or two chunks - no matter what my intentions when I open the wrapper, the entire bar disappears. Doesn't matter if it's 50g or 400g, or how ill I KNOW I'll feel later. Once I start eating, it just disappears and afterwards I have very little recollection of the eating - autopilot kicks in. Suffice to say, even if economics are an issue, I no longer buy in bulk......

Drugs can also bring other problems into the equation, though. Psychological addiction can be beaten with self-control (if you have enough of it!) but some drugs, including alcohol, can have a physical component to the addiction. Use over time means the body develops a tolerance to the drug, which in turn means more of the drug must be used to get the same effect. Eventually the body becomes dependent on the drug, and cannot function without a maintenance dose.

Alcohol, heroin and benzodiazepines (Valium, Temezepam etc) are all drugs which carry the risk of physical addiction. Chronic alcoholics can get symptoms ranging from headaches and nausea through to delirium tremens (DT's) if they suddenly stop drinking.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/withdraw/a/aa030307a.htm

http://www.bcnc.org.uk/symptoms.html


If your friends have stopped drinking and are adamant that they cannot have 'just one', they're probably right. They may have stopped drinking several times, thought 'just one won't hurt', and found out the hard way that there is no such thing as 'just one' for them. There has been some research to show a genetic predisposition to addiction exists, which may partly explain why alcoholism and other addictive behaviours (excessive gambling etc) seem to run in families.

http://www.gannett.com/go/difference/greatfalls/pages/part2/secrets.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-find-gene-that-can-predict-alcoholism-1058012.html

Basically, dealing with addiction can be summed up (IMO) by; know your limits and stick to them. If you have a friend who knows his limit is zero, he's just being sensible by not drinking. (Doesn't mean he has to be a martyr about it, though........)
 
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new_mama4

Member
As others have said alcoholism is an addiction, not a simple matter of not have enough self control. If anything you should be admiring and congratulating them for having enough self control to fight their addiction, not condemning them for not conforming to your beliefs about drinking.

Let's put this another way, why is so important to you that a social drink be an alcoholic beverage? Why can't you accept that some people either don't want to consume alcohol (whatever their reasons) or, because of previous addictions, can't consume alcohol?

Go out with your mates and have a lemonade, it shouldn't make a difference to your relationship with them what they drink.
 
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BrownFinger

New member
Yes buying multiple items of the same thing I already have like shoes,used watches at flea markets or second hand stores,books I never will read rings I don't wear multiple other items.And I may want to do things like go to the lake or park and if someone doesn't want to go I call them lazy and couch potatoes.And several other things I need to work on.But this is not the same in my opinion.
 
AnnCoulter:Nutcase

AnnCoulter:Nutcase

New member
Nah mate. Like I said, I'm no expert. But I will tell you this: I felt much the same way at one time myself. I didn't drink at all through middle school, high school, college, and for years and years after college. I was adamant about it. Didn't go to parties. Or, if I did, I was stone sober (and really out of place). So, when it was suggested to me that I do a counseling internship related to substance abuse, I worried that I'd be unable (or even unwilling) to empathize.

It didn't stick. It couldn't. These folks are going through something that I don't really need to fully understand to recognize how hard it is. Sure, there are some people in that pool who are going to relapse because they really aren't trying. There are others who will try, but will make mistakes. And there are some who will succeed (even if success is tenuous and requires constant vigilance).

The thing, for me, is that it's hard to hear individual stories and not start putting them into more perspective than simply, "hasn't got the good sense to stop."

Sure, you can point to mistakes they've made. So can they generally. But I try to remind myself (and I don't have to try very hard) of the stupid things I've done so far in my life. And how much harder my life is when those stupid things happened to coincide with genetic predilictions (e.g., staying in dysfunctional relationships when I was already prone to depression).

There's choice involved. Just as there's choice involved in eating a low-fat diet when you're prone to heart disease, cutting down on salt intake when you have high blood pressure, etc.

Just my thoughts.
 
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girlzrock4evah

New member
I wish I'd said this. It does sound like they're make a smart choice here. Not putting themselves in compromising positions is an important part of the solution.
 
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RodeoGirl

Member
You sound like a jerk. What a terrible friend you are I hope you haven't given your "friends" a hard time for choosing not to have a drink.

For the record I hardly drink anymore. Infact I hate the taste of alcohol and getting typsy is overrated to me. I have just as much fun and my friends appreciate having a driver, though they still ask me to drink from time to time.
 
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john_carlton04

New member
I know and don't mean to but I think they can work through this. Also I don't just do this to friends I do this to family members also. If their health is something that can be improved and they appear lazy or have habits that I think they need to change that will help them.Also smoking is really bad and I have zero tolerance around a smoker.I really want to improve them. But if they refuse my requests I won't and never force the issue.Except smoking I just leave the area of a smoker.
 
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lovemobiles

New member
Rivend ... dont judge others ....

Alcohol, nicotine ...all addictive whether legal or not..

Be supportive of those trying to stay away from drink ....

Smurf
 
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courtnut

New member
That's the point though. They are working through it. If they're saying they can't go and have a social drink, that's the work. Part of it, anyway.

How do you think they feel? Lots of people, when they commit to recovery, have to avoid places they used to frequent and even cut off relationships with people who don't support their recovery. (That friend who only ever wants to go out and get pickled, you're probably not going to be seeing much of him if you're trying to stay off the sauce.)

It's a real loss. But people fall back on old patterns very readily if the right psychological triggers are waved around in front of them.


Stuart
 
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Bammy

Member
What is it with these heroin addicts eh?
Why can't they just make do with a nice bit of social heroin? Amongst friends? All this "avoiding heroin" is a putting a downer on things.
 
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