A question about self control please
- Thread starter BoxerMom
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I readily admit to finding it hard to have sympathy with people who refuse to admit to having a problem. However, the first step in dealing with any addictive behaviour is to admit that there is a problem and start trying to deal with it. I think people who have taken that step deserve our help, support and admiration, not our condemnation for having the problem in the first place. We should be supporting them by helping to not put them in a position where they might be tempted by their addiction
There is a vast difference between someone who is an alcoholic and someone who can't be bothered getting off the sofa to go to the gym because it's cold outside and their favourite tv programme is on!
There is a vast difference between someone who is an alcoholic and someone who can't be bothered getting off the sofa to go to the gym because it's cold outside and their favourite tv programme is on!
i_need_ice
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- Apr 13, 2008
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It is a cancer that eats away at society!
miralina[mylruhlleena]
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- Feb 18, 2008
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First, you had to know you'd come off looking like a bad guy but you voiced this anyway in the hopes we could help - for that I give you props. Now, heres where I turn that around on ya...
You're trying to work through something that you would like to understand or come to grips with and, on several occassions that has been met with judgement, accusation and little sympathy. You've been told you sound like a jerk and condemned for just being honest about something you're struggling with....
so are THEY.
The truth is the vast majority of us struggle with SOMETHING. I am a LOT like you. The smoking thing? You have no idea how harshly I judge smokers. Thing is I have no right to. Just because I dont smoke doesnt make me better, it simply means I have other vices, weaknesses and issues.
Find comfort in the fact that you're not in their shoes. Take solace in the fact that you dont understand their disease on a more intimate level and though you CAN'T understand it, respect the simple fact that, while it doesnt make sense to you, they are doing what they need to do. To give in is the true sign of weakness. If strength is what you respect than respect the strength it takes to stare your addiction in the eye and admit it's stronger than you are - admit that if you give in even a little you risk all.
My hats off to anyone that can be strong enough to admit that and live accordingly.
You're trying to work through something that you would like to understand or come to grips with and, on several occassions that has been met with judgement, accusation and little sympathy. You've been told you sound like a jerk and condemned for just being honest about something you're struggling with....
so are THEY.
The truth is the vast majority of us struggle with SOMETHING. I am a LOT like you. The smoking thing? You have no idea how harshly I judge smokers. Thing is I have no right to. Just because I dont smoke doesnt make me better, it simply means I have other vices, weaknesses and issues.
Find comfort in the fact that you're not in their shoes. Take solace in the fact that you dont understand their disease on a more intimate level and though you CAN'T understand it, respect the simple fact that, while it doesnt make sense to you, they are doing what they need to do. To give in is the true sign of weakness. If strength is what you respect than respect the strength it takes to stare your addiction in the eye and admit it's stronger than you are - admit that if you give in even a little you risk all.
My hats off to anyone that can be strong enough to admit that and live accordingly.
As someone who sometimes has a lack of self control (sweet tooth) and someone who has struggled with addiction, let me say that the mental experience is not remotely the same between the two. It may look the same from the outside, but inside my skull, it's not remotely the same thing going on. It's difficult to explain if you've never felt it. Explaining what addiction feels like to someone who has never felt it is like explaining colors to a blind person.
livingwithoutu
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- Mar 1, 2008
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I understand having low impulse control. I remember being a kid and really wanting to be better behaved and really meaning it when I said I'd calm down and not keep doing something I'd been told not to do. And then that self control lasted about 30 seconds and I'd go do it because impulses were yelling louder than the rational voice saying 'don't do X'.
So while I'm not an alcoholic, drug addict, gambler etc, I'd rather err on the side of showing them some understanding rather than point the finger at them for not having self control.
This! They are making the responsible choice by not going near it at all.
Would you rather they had one, then started craving some more? Would you rather they drank to please you, then started thinking 'oh if I only had another one I'd feel ok about everything...' and that 'one more' became 'six more'?
Just for the sake of silly, superficial social norms?
Please put this in perspective.
So while I'm not an alcoholic, drug addict, gambler etc, I'd rather err on the side of showing them some understanding rather than point the finger at them for not having self control.
This! They are making the responsible choice by not going near it at all.
Would you rather they had one, then started craving some more? Would you rather they drank to please you, then started thinking 'oh if I only had another one I'd feel ok about everything...' and that 'one more' became 'six more'?
Just for the sake of silly, superficial social norms?
Please put this in perspective.
DrFaridehS
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- Mar 7, 2008
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Think how I feel, I collect them
Exactly.... they avoid and that is what they have to do.I don't smoke and rarely drink. Matter of what that's why I have met and hang around some people in recovery.Because of the fact I don't need to drink.
The question that I ask one who is a counselor like you are. Is why does this subject consume their thoughts and create fear and depression.The answer he gave was that it is a disease and a lifetime battle.
So it made me wonder in a concerned way. Should they be able to overcome this with some type of mental self control method so as the relapse rate would not be so high and their inner battle is not so all consuming.
The question that I ask one who is a counselor like you are. Is why does this subject consume their thoughts and create fear and depression.The answer he gave was that it is a disease and a lifetime battle.
So it made me wonder in a concerned way. Should they be able to overcome this with some type of mental self control method so as the relapse rate would not be so high and their inner battle is not so all consuming.
americanpielover
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- Apr 5, 2008
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As it is an addiction both in mental and physical form, the physical form to beat can be easy compared to the mental brainwashing so to say the person did to themselves (they had to logically adapt to the addiction and did so to keep functioning (until even that broke down)).
Only by delving deep enough and finding the original triggers can they rid themselves fully, but still a part of the trigger might linger in them then even still (mental cleanup can be a very hard process especially if thougth processes have ben used over a long time).
Actions that where caused by the trigger then activate the original response as it was ingrained so to speak if even a part of the original trigger exists (the famous one sigaret can't hurt for example).
The real trick here is that those who go against it have a very strong mental self control, if they where weak they would not even try it or do it.
Only by delving deep enough and finding the original triggers can they rid themselves fully, but still a part of the trigger might linger in them then even still (mental cleanup can be a very hard process especially if thougth processes have ben used over a long time).
Actions that where caused by the trigger then activate the original response as it was ingrained so to speak if even a part of the original trigger exists (the famous one sigaret can't hurt for example).
The real trick here is that those who go against it have a very strong mental self control, if they where weak they would not even try it or do it.
Gosh, if only I had thought about possibly trying some self-control, I would have saved myself so much heartache!
I have stood motionless for five minutes while a yellow jacket climbed around my neck, before it flew off. I have used every throat and mouth muscle to hold vomit in my mouth for two minutes on a public bus so that I wouldn't throw up on the bus itself. I have broken through a pine board with my forehead. I have practiced meditation in the Thich Nhat Hanh method for hours on end. I have skinny-dipped in a mountain stream in winter. Trust me, I'm no stranger to "some type of mental self control method." I've got good self control.
Addiction is different. It works in a different part of your brain. It actually reprograms your brain chemistry to respond differently to the addictive chemical or activity, or deprivation thereof. It's not the same cognitive process at all as sticking your hand into a fire or standing under a cold waterfall or any other traditional "self-control" activity. Like I said, it's hard to really explain to people who have never felt the process at work.
I have stood motionless for five minutes while a yellow jacket climbed around my neck, before it flew off. I have used every throat and mouth muscle to hold vomit in my mouth for two minutes on a public bus so that I wouldn't throw up on the bus itself. I have broken through a pine board with my forehead. I have practiced meditation in the Thich Nhat Hanh method for hours on end. I have skinny-dipped in a mountain stream in winter. Trust me, I'm no stranger to "some type of mental self control method." I've got good self control.
Addiction is different. It works in a different part of your brain. It actually reprograms your brain chemistry to respond differently to the addictive chemical or activity, or deprivation thereof. It's not the same cognitive process at all as sticking your hand into a fire or standing under a cold waterfall or any other traditional "self-control" activity. Like I said, it's hard to really explain to people who have never felt the process at work.
ThriceBlessed
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- Apr 5, 2008
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I get you, Mitlov.
I've never been addicted to a drug...but I think I understand. My obsessions that came with my mild Asperger's symptoms were kind of the same. I thought I was being rational when I fixated non stop on one subject and wouldn't let it go even when I drove everyone around me away...To my mind, I didn't have a problem. My obsession was the only thing that was real, and if other people didn't like it, well, they were just different to me, they didn't understand. (One of my monomanias was death and mutilation, lol. You can imagine how much fun I was to be around...)
So I think I understand...maybe I'm wrong but addictions and obsessions kind of seem like two sides of a coin. I wasn't addicted to a substance, but I was "addicted" to something in my own mind.
So I don't like the 'oh, just show some self control' angle. I understand not being entirely rational over something.
I've never been addicted to a drug...but I think I understand. My obsessions that came with my mild Asperger's symptoms were kind of the same. I thought I was being rational when I fixated non stop on one subject and wouldn't let it go even when I drove everyone around me away...To my mind, I didn't have a problem. My obsession was the only thing that was real, and if other people didn't like it, well, they were just different to me, they didn't understand. (One of my monomanias was death and mutilation, lol. You can imagine how much fun I was to be around...)
So I think I understand...maybe I'm wrong but addictions and obsessions kind of seem like two sides of a coin. I wasn't addicted to a substance, but I was "addicted" to something in my own mind.
So I don't like the 'oh, just show some self control' angle. I understand not being entirely rational over something.
Question.. so does this chemical process in the brain happen to a person when other addictive type pursuits are followed? Example going to a casino and being compulsive about it *I personally know people with this problem* Or shopping or some other compulsive additive activity that doesn't require an outside substance like alcohol ,food ,drugs etc
ImMrsArchuleta
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- Apr 20, 2008
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i have no idea. neurological or psychological disorders might presumably be associated with it though.
You don't need a chemical such as alcohol or heroin to trigger the brain chemistry response of an addict. Someone who is truly addicted to gambling or whatever (and not just excessively engaging in it) still experiences a change in dopamine production when engaging in that activity, even though they're not taking drugs or alcohol. The "reward" pathways of the brain basically get mis-programed or re-programmed. Drugs and alcohol add a second layer to the addiction--that of physical addiction (where your body experiences physical withdrawal from the absence of a drug after repeated exposures to the drug...this is particularly true with opiates, nicotine, and to a lesser extent caffeine)--but the dopamine changes in the brain that cause psychological addiction occur whether the addiction is to a chemical or to an activity.
But if you're asking whether someone who is addicted to X has that dopamine reaction when engaging in Y (for example, does someone with a drinking problem have that dopamine effect when they gamble, or does a compulsive gambler have that dopamine reaction when they drink)...not necessarily. People can be more prone to addiction than others, so they might develop more than one addiction more rapidly than is typical, but just because someone is addicted to X doesn't mean they're going to have an addict's response to Y, even though many other people are addicted to Y.
But if you're asking whether someone who is addicted to X has that dopamine reaction when engaging in Y (for example, does someone with a drinking problem have that dopamine effect when they gamble, or does a compulsive gambler have that dopamine reaction when they drink)...not necessarily. People can be more prone to addiction than others, so they might develop more than one addiction more rapidly than is typical, but just because someone is addicted to X doesn't mean they're going to have an addict's response to Y, even though many other people are addicted to Y.
As a layman myself and not educated in this my question may I ask is if an individual is Not addicted to any substance but they let themselves be controlled by a possibly debilitating pursuit economically or whatever the negative personal result is. Does this mean that the weakness for this pursuit and the pleasure sensors it triggers cannot be controlled by the individual and it has to result in them hitting rock bottom money wise, loss of job, family, friends etc... Before their mind realizes the habit of theirs is destructive. And does this define them as having weakness of character or whatever other self control trait they may lack?
Thanks for your well thought out reply by the way.
Thanks for your well thought out reply by the way.
jayne62224
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- Mar 24, 2008
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Depends on what you mean by "cannot be controlled." Once the brain has remapped, the activity cannot be healthily engaged in in moderation. It can be "controlled" by total abstinence, if the person realizes the problem, admits they have a problem, seeks and receives the support of others in abstaining from the addiction, etc.
There's a huge difference between (1) realizing the habit is destructive, and (2) having the understanding of addiction and the external support necessary to fight it, and availing oneself of that knowledge and those resources. Essentially all addicts realize the habit is destructive. Not all addicts fit #2 for various reasons.
No. It defines them as having a problem. Not as having weakness of character.
Though as noted above, I'm not an objective person to answer the question, because we're talking about me here. And while I've got some problems, I'd like to think I don't have "weakness of character."
There's a huge difference between (1) realizing the habit is destructive, and (2) having the understanding of addiction and the external support necessary to fight it, and availing oneself of that knowledge and those resources. Essentially all addicts realize the habit is destructive. Not all addicts fit #2 for various reasons.
No. It defines them as having a problem. Not as having weakness of character.
Though as noted above, I'm not an objective person to answer the question, because we're talking about me here. And while I've got some problems, I'd like to think I don't have "weakness of character."