What's fairness got to do with anything? How should a parent assertian control over a child? Because it's basically only theoretical anyway. All this talk of respect etc is just BS, and only exists if the child acknowledges it. The Government has stripped parents of the most basic abilities (ie a gentle smack/shouting /general punishment) by bigging up the laws that tell us all to be lovely to children. To compare a Parent beating a child to a child going out and misbehaving is slightly stupid. One the parent has ACTIVE control over the other is PASSIVE, the parent has no direct control over children short of throwing them out. If they get thrown out it'll only get worse anyway (evidence : everyone i know who has been thrown out of their homes have gone onto drugs and crime)
You tell me how you are going to get a 15 year old kid willing to shoot another child over drug money is going to be sorted out with "a gentle but firm hand" is pure crap. Super Nanny works on 6 year olds and i imagine it doesn't even work for that long, kids are stupid and are raised to be as such.
Wow, now you've said that everything i've ever thought or believed has just been changed... I now have nothing else to say on the matter because your completely right....
But in all seriousness, i dont have anything more to say on the matter, because i obviously can't say what i mean in a sense that can make you understand.
You change what i say to fit your rather odd sense of what i could mean, therefore nothing i can type here would be deemed right by you, it'd just be BS therefore theres no point.
I'll remain thinking my way you remain being you. done done.
Seems like today's UK is about learning how to ride the system and get away with it. There's too many rules that inhibit parents from raising their children properly. Give them a good beating when they do something wrong, not say "oh, I'm so disappointed, I hope you won't do that again..." Naughty step my ass. What a load of rubbish. Works if they're under 5 I suppose. But any older, forget it.
And as for this "human rights act", anyone who violates anyone else's human rights should lose theirs. Plain and simple. And that goes for teenagers too.
I repeat my own solution. Make them stay in the house, be responsible, and teach them values whether they like it or not. If that means them being locked in their rooms and fed homework, then so be it. I'd be quite happy to see "naughty boys and girls" of any age on leashes like you have for toddlers. Being attatched to mummy and daddy in the street might teach them a lesson in humiliation.
And before anyone attacks me for my views, try being followed home three times a week, verbally abused both in and out of work, and harrassed at home by the little [beeps] constantly.
Take them to the gym / leisure centre every night of the week. Saturday take them sailing. Sunday is Sunday lunch followed by another leisure centre.
Don't have time to be bad.
I'm largely on the same page as you, and I get followed home by police, gangs and avoided by normal people because i'm a teenager at night. So it annoys me.
My general arguement with Psymon is because his posts were just idealistic and the same crap that gets spouted by people in pubs. Half formed ideas about things they don't really know much about. I argue in the pub, I argue here. Nothing personally against him I like his ideas as a whole, they just don't work sadly.
I maintain my POV on this. If omeone gets pregnant in this day and age its their problem and theirs alone. If it is rape that is the only time I consider it alright to get an abortion, ever. Even then, Morning after pill can prevent that.
AS for bad Parenting, this is the effect of modern day education. Very few people get brought up with manners anymore, vary few people get brought up with morales, values etc. Almost nobody appreciates what they have. This all leads to an ignorant society who osimply pass it onto their children.
1) i do get depressed when i see the scum you're thinking about, BUT remember not all the country is like that!!!
2) some people on here are talking very naively!!! there are already many parenting classes and similar schemes available,and child development studies at school, sex education is getting better. but all of these things you want to impose are so grey!! nothing like that is black and white, it's grey.
you can't measure a good parent, and you can only teach the very BASICS of parenting, but you cant change a person!! if a mum or dad is really stressed out and spends all day shouting at their kids cos they are just like that, the kid won't learn anythign (don't let me get too deep into parenting tho but do ask)
3) supernanny's naughty step is not meant to be for older kids, once the kids uinderstand right from wrong from a young age, then things will be a lot easier in later ages! it's a base to work on, you have to catch it early. tryin to get a 13 yr old to behave is a lot harder than getting a 3 yr old to behave.
these "chav" people who bring up bad kid's are doing so from the start! if you laugh at a toddler who swears, then already ur creating bad habits. simple as, and it goes with every other bad behaviour u can think of.
it's SO not that simple it's irritating!! you can have countless schemes, but things won't get better overnight and how do u find and reach all the population?
you cant MAKE people do classes, you can't always TALK to them, how do u find them in the first place? do you say, knock knock, ooh ur a bad parent u need this, oh well this one is okay i suppose..??
parenting classes start from age 0, so how can u tell if the parents can't bring up a child if it's not been bought up yet??
trying to remedy every already naughty child is a ridiculous task, the same as sorting out all the numerous other problems this country has!
you have also no idea the number of things they do at school!!
they have educational psychologists, youth offending teams, group workshops on various things and tons of different things in place to help these kids, and work with their parents.
things aren't all that bad! and at leats some people are tryin to sort out some of the issues.
ps: i don't see what's wrong with teachers. if you find the right kind, they'd be perfect for behaviour management skills, as they get lots of training in that area. they're not all great that's for sure, but some people are more than suited!!
Things have changed in the 5 years since I left then. It does sound a long time now I think about it. But I think the English language is going downhill in schools though! I thought "no" meant no, not "let's have a debate about it where you show your lack of language skills by using expletives as adjectives."
this has been an interesting read... ANd im now going to greatly contradict myself. i personally agree with what was said, - if you get pregnant, it should be solely you and your partners responsibility. but then at the same time, i was down my local shops a while ago, and i saw this kid, about 3 or 4 years old, kicking a car. If i had a kid who did this, id go nuts, but the parents of this child just stood there laughing... They arent fit to bring up a kid in my opinion. BUt then at the same time why should other people foot the bill if that kid was taken into childcare.
Another thing is, its not just an issue for 'lower class' families. I worked for a family a while ago, and the kids were just plain horrible. Used to urinate everywhere (including in another workers tool box), they never did as they were told, and in my opinion perhaps worst of all, used to hit their mum... Yet they lived in a 3 or 4 million pound house, and their dad drove a bentley...
One thing i do feel strongly about, is that if you have a conviction for certain crimes within a certain time ( say 2 years?), at the age of , well lets say 18, there should be cumpolsory national service.
i admit i havent thought loads about this, but it would be a start to getting some of the 'yoofs' into a job, teaching them responsibility of the highest level. And to some people, it would hopefully act as a deterent from commiting crime in the first place
they only removed compulsory national service in france in 98, so i would agree for this to be put into practise as a good way of sorting out a few petty crimers or just making a few boys into men.