casual abortion

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nicky6

Member
Generally I agree with most of what you've written at the start, as you've explained it. I think you missed out a key point in the quantum decay, which is the role of measurement/observation. The particle doesn't just decay with some probability, it will exist in the states of 'has decayed' and 'hasn't decayed' until something performs a 'measurement' on it. I'm not convinced by your explanation of quantum randomness making the universe pop into existence. If neither time, nor space, nor anything that normally fills time and space, exists before the big bang, what is there that could exist in a quantum state of 'universe exists' and 'universe doesn't exist', and what would measure it to resolve it into the 'exists' eigenstate? Of course all these questions are irrelevant, because that sort of quantum 'popping into existence' isn't what we're talking about, and I'm not saying that quantum cosmology is a load of bull. I'm just not convinced you're presenting it as what it actually is.

On an unrelated note, I object to your inclusion of Occam's Razor as worded above. You are implying that simplicity of a model is in any way a measure of its scientific truth, which it is not.
 
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tazzz

New member
How come you cant seem to identify the topic as abortion, not the big bang theory?
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quantom things just happen spontanious.. things just "pop into existance", chaos, anarchy..... this is why this part of science is pure FICTION, and also the RELIGION of time worship. This whole part of science is unscientific and not supported by the scientific method.
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yes we know there is a universe, these things again are the facts observed by science. The explaination for the facts is like the sands...very many different explainations.
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Bendzr is a few fries short of a happy meal, not the smartest crayon in the box. Can give you some text book answers, but cannot debate or admit the multitude of ignorance and arrogance that drives his every post. Im going out on a limb but Im thinking youre a teenager? You mean well, but your not in any postition to give advice, teach, or even begin to prove anything. Almost Every thing in your last post is supported by many beliefs. The universe exists, cause and effect... the universe had to start somehow. DUH.. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out, people ponder this alot.
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Again, the difference is that there are the obvious facts and the explainations for these facts are forked and off shoots.
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Mr Simpson, not having absolute proof is just a cover up to diminish the demand for knowledge. There are things that are absolute proof which I mentioned in earlier posts which were censored and eliminated. One absolute proof is the boiling point of water. Yes we know that factors can change this point, but given a stable circumstance with a controlled enviornment and the same specimen, you can tell at what point water boils. Elevation, pollution, room temperature.. things like that, we know can alter our research, but when we have that controlled environment we can determine superior knowledge. We plant an apple seed. Absolute knowledge is if the seedling grows, it is going to be an apple tree, not an orange tree, not a pine tree. If we go to a house and remove a 2x4 board we can determine it is wood. There are many facts, and many things that wear against the stituation to change the states of everything.
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Time had to exist before the big bang, if there was one. Nothing could just "pop into existance, explode, and all of a sudden we have Paul McCartney singing and Johnny burnin down the trailer park... just random chaos from a gas cloud, no way.
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Time didnt just switch on, but the measurment of time, because time is an elapse of changes upon something. If we were eternal, time would not matter because we would not decay or deteroiate.
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The Universe poping out of nowhere more establishes religion than saying gas clouds floated around endlessly before the big bang, because you cant identify where those gases came from because they would have to have an exact volume to them, and would have to move for some reason and exist without reason, and what created them? So lets just say the Universe just popped into existance, yea, that is scientific, and funnier every day in a very sad way.
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Mr simpson, the abortions that happen narurally are miscarriges, which are not intentional, when they are intentional they are abortion and often homicide. The proof is when a woman is ONE month pregnant and someone attacks the pregnant woman and she looses her child, it is murder. So for a woman wanting to keep her baby and it killed how is it that a woman not wanting to keep it can destroy it?
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The problem with most people like Bendzr is they post things like your tv guide or local newspaper with your horriscope: they give you logical facts mingled with dumb crap that most people dont see as obvious/ half truths.
Here is your horiscope, youre gonna talk to someone from your past, consider a financial change, consider a new job, consider moving or going on vacation.
well duh, we have the facts but dont need someone telling us Jupiter is aligned with Saturn for the explaination of why we consider a change in our job. This again is just a simple exaple of how we have facts and the explainations for the facts can be as far as the east is from the west. There are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Everyone wants to be a leader and claim they know everything insted of learning. If science isnt absolute why preach science like it is, when real scientits hunger to research and gather and share NEW information, not just stand on the accounts of others.
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lets talk about abortion before they remove this thread like they did my last one. Human lives are actually more important to talk about than a fantasy about sci-fi.
 
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QueenBee

Member
Consider this your only warning: personal attacks are not allowed here. Resort to another and not only will I remove your post, I will also remove your ability to make new ones for a while.
 
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judiths

Member
Once again Endeavour you are demonstrating that you have absolutley no knowledge what you're talking about. Guess you've never studied chemistry. Or biology for that matter. Do you know that on certain planets in our milky way we have detected gas clouds that actually prove that there could be life on them ? Even if its minouscule and about as small as a cell. You need to check up on your chemistry/biology Endeavour before you come on here and claim its not possible. In fact, what I wonder, is if you are even aware of how your own body functions.



Yes, Endeavour, join the club. Its kind of ironic that that kind of comment comes from you actually. Most of what you sprout are only half truths, sometimes not even truths as you can't even prove what you're saying but just claim that 'god has the answer' or 'did it'. If anything is a half truth, that would be it. In fact, its not even truth, its just your belief talking.

P.S: Sorry to hear about your other thread.

Christian
 
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McUnited

New member
On the contrary, quantum theory is supported by the scientific method. It makes definite predictions that can be tested. They have been tested, and the tests yielded the expected results. Do you know what a GHZ state is? No? Then shut up.

That's funny, cos when Professor Hawking lectured me on the topic a few weeks back, he said the exact opposite.
 
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JonathanA

Member
Hahahaha. Endeavor, you are a troll. No doubt you will be banned from these forums if you keep it up.

Most teenagers that I teach are actually able to string a sentence together without embarressing themselves. So compared to the drivel that you continuously spit on here; even if I was a teenager, I would still be better than the average insignificant forum troll.

Not that it really matters.

While you are busy preaching and ranting about your views on abortion, this thread has actually moved on - because no one really pays your kicking and screaming much attention anymore - and people are discussing something totally different.

My post was specifically adressing something another - more polite - member was asking me. I wasn't talking to you. Nor do I give a crap what you think.

Go play somewhere else.
 
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ckm

New member
Damn, didn't even think about that at the time. Was a long post, so forgive me



TBH I think I explained it quite badly, but it is difficult for me - regardless of how much I study this topic - to explain it to someone else. Simply because my mind goes off on a tangent way too easily when I am dealing with this topic.

The reason for the post itself was to give MAnewbie some general idea of where my stances are on the idea. If it isn't entirely flawless I am not really going to lose sleep over it. I still think I have given him the general idea without too much confusion I hope.



Okay, I failed to realise my bad wording of Occams Razor. My bad.

I think for the purpose of the post itself, it does the job. However, you are right. It's not quite acurate. Depending on how you read my post, it may seem that I am suggesting that simplicity is perfection, which I wasn't trying to say.

To rephrase:

Occams Razor;

Occam's Razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. When multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.
 
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AmitK

New member
Okay no more rheotric. I can't lurk anymore without posting a woman/mothers thoughts here.
First let me bestow my credentials. I AM a Woman. I AM a mother. I have had a very close friend get an abortion, and I AM PRO CHOICE.



Let's disect this loaded right wing dribble you put in your first post. So it's okay to get an abortion if you were incestually raped or your life is at risk? But not okay in other scenarios? I'll save the "moral" debate for another post because, well debating morallity is complex and apparently leads to bing bang disscussions and science and God holding hands and walking into the sunset.... which is all WAAY over my head.

But how about the legislative issues? So who determines which woman gets the abortion? the doctor in case of her medical health? Because if one doctor says you need to abort the fetus..in comes a policitical and religious group with their own doctor insisting she be re-examined and given a second opinion.

Do you see the problem here? The minute you legislate a womans choice on her reprodictive rights, you allow for groups with political agendas to infringe on those rights and push THEIR choice on to the woman. This is ALREADY happening with hospitals refusing to prescribe the M.A.P. in cases of rape as a precaution.

Now in a case of rape/incest, who determines if the woman is allowed her right in this scenario? The police? First a report must be made by the victim, then can she? Or would the case need to be thoroughly investigated first? By then it may be to late. So then any woman can get an abortion if they just say they were raped. And then what if it was Date rape and she doesn't want to press charges? How do you know if the woman is really raped or not?

Do you see the problem here? The minute you say that the exception can be made because of a criminal act you, you then have to legislate peramieters of defining what a rape is..and if the case needs to be proved for the woman to be allowed her choice. You tie up courts, police and investigators who possibly may be following false reports.

Now the final problem in LEGISLATING a woman's reproductive rights. When you give a governamental body the deciding factor over your utereus it is not just a one way street. So when you are out there protesting and giving your politicians the right to force their morality on others, just remember a little country called China. Because when the government can FORCE you to keep your pregnancy, they can FORCE you to end one.
 
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pinkisluv17

New member
As a WOMAN and A MOTHER I can absolutely say that it would be sad...yes. But at one month most women do not even know they are pregnant, therefore the idea of attatchment may not even be formed. The real tragedy in the scenario is ONE PERSON FORCING A CHOICE ON YOU THAT IS NOT THEIRS TO MAKE!
 
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PublicEnemy#1

New member
Yes, I agree that providing for yourself and baby is very important but to Abort a baby is another matter. I will say it plain and clear," I Do Not Believe In Abortion At All".

There happens to be millions of families out there who would love to adopt that baby and for someone to have an abortion is not the final solution. There are resources out there to help women who are pregnant and in need of financial assistance. I actually adopted a new born and I am so glad that there was someone out there willing to make the right choices. Me and my husband couldn't be any happier and I simply could not imagine life without her.

A lot of people believe in abortion but we do not. However, that is there opinion and I can't change that. I would rather take a knife to myself then hurt an innocent child and rob that child of a life and a future. So theres my opinion and lastly, " keep your hands off an innocent life".
 
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dumbh3ad

Member
First congratulations on your new addition!

I don't "beleive" in abortion either. In fact I bet you will find few who do. What I beleive in is choice. What angers a lot of people about this issue who are on my side of the fence is that you have everyone else saying that we are for killing babies and this is simply not true. Personally I would never have an abortion. But Who am I to tell someone else what they can and can't do with their body.

As with adoption I am all for it! My two cousins were twins adopted from India. I think more people need to look outside our borders and adopt. Especially in China.
 
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CandiiRainbow

Member
I think the problem with Abortion is that every person has a different definition on some very significant factors.

Most people would agree, ending a babys' life, after birth is wrong.

Most people would agree, ending a babys' life, before birth is wrong.

Some people would, and some wouldn't agree that preventing a baby from forming, is wrong. Because the killing of cells, is not the same as killing a formed fetus/baby.

Most people would disagree that killing a sperm cell is wrong.

Why not though ? You are killing an innocent Baby. In the future, that sperm cell may have resulted in a born baby, had it been used for that purpose.

I don't think being anti-abortion is wrong, or incorrect. But where do you draw the line with regards to "killing a potential life" ? You could take it to even more extremes, but I'll leave it at that.

If you are going to suggest that Abortion is wrong, then you cannot go and ejaculate without the intention of having a child. That would be inconsistant and immoral, right ? That cell exists only for the purpose of conceiving a child. If you destroy the cell before it acomplishes that purpose, then you surely are stealing the life of a person who is yet to be born.

So, all of the above, ranging from extreme (blatent murdering of a born baby) to the other side of the scale, is going to come down to an opinion.

Which leads me to think that HotstufFuntime nailed it, by saying it she's pro-choice.

The act of Abortion is dependant on the person who allows it, based on how they define things. So it really should be a choice which is allowed for the mother to determine.

That being said, the topic of Abortion is generally about "should it be allowed?" and in which case, I would say yes, because a mother should have that choice.

I think to actually preach in regards to Abortion, makes you the lowest of lows. No one will willingly kill their own child. It isn't like that. To actually suggest it is, is disgusting.

If Abortion was as black and white as some people in here make it sound, and it was as simple as 'Abortion = Killing children' then I very much doubt anyone would even consider it.

How many people kill their own children for convinience in the world, every day ? I doubt it's that big a number. So no, hundreds are not being slaughtered.
 
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BomChickaWahWah

New member
HotstufFuntime: so FORCING A CHOICE is wrong? Ok than you are clearly speaking for the baby because it doesnt have a choice when they terminate it.
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Punisher, what do chemistry and biology have to do with the universe just "popiing into existance" like Bendzr thinks? And there may be life elsewhere in the Universe? What does that have to do with spontaniously poping into existance? Nothing, so why dont you get over you ex-girlfriend being a ho and stop blaming me by hate-posting against everything I say. Its not my fault buddy, let it go. You cant even blame the priest because your ex made the choice to betray you, if she really was loyal we wouldnt be having this conversation.
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HotStufFunTime: you want a woman to have rights but not a baby to have rights, so when you are Hot stuff and have a fun time, we that care about human life dont want to kill the baby just because you got drunk and would rather make money than love a baby. You do have rights as a woman, but also men have rights and children have rights. When your rights infringe on anothers safty than your rights have to have boundaries to protects society.
Yes, most women dont know they are pregnant for awhile, LONG AFTER there are just a "few cells". I already posted how babies form, they actually have a heart before one month old, hands, feet, they are actually a person, growing.
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I strain to grasp how people think abortions happen. Its not just a bunch of cells dissappear. They inflict major damage to the baby until it dies. Its very sick, and barbaric how they kill the kid, but Im sure all of you have seen the procedure and know that since its just a bunch of cells inside of mommys tummy it will be all better in the morning. A bunch of cells with a brain and a heart and little hands and fingers haulted by butchery.
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TimmyBoy, you cant argue with people that dont know what they are talking about. Go to an abortion clinic, or look on the internet instead of reading the ficticious posts many here impose. Wheather a medical or religions group is pro-choice or pro-life they both overlap with the procedures to kill babies, who are alive, because the proof is if a woman were eveN ONE MONTH PREGNANT and wanted to KEEP her baby, if it was aborted against her will, it would be MURDER. Everyone knows this, so why pretend it isnt alive. You dont just become alive when you are exiting the womb. Inside the womb, babies kick, move around, their hearts beat, they move their fingers and toes, and it is a clear violation of their right to live by killing them.
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I never said incest or other force gave the right to terminate life. I just ddnt want to go into those topics. I just meant the party girls that want to kill their party baggage. which is the number one reason women get abortions, not rape, but "irresponsible actions which were later regretted."
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when a man or woman is 20 can their mom or dad kill them legally? No! How about when a kid is 5 or 10..can their mom or dad kill them legally? NO! so how can anyone have a right to kill another person especially when they havent done anything to deserve to be killed?~! Hello? So if you want to talk about rights, you really dont have many., Youre not even allowed to kill yourself!!! much less should you be killing anyone else, especially a precious baby, If you have kids and someone told you they had a time machine and were going to go back into time and give you an abortion, but it will be ok because its just a bunch of cells.. you wouldnt go for it. so dont lie.
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guess what? we are all just a bunch of cells! I think some of you are confusing abortion with prevention. By 3-5 weeks old a bay has a head, eyes, ears, and nose, and major organ systems. Just a bunch of cells? Do you think babies come from santa claus? It is obvious most of you dont know anatomy or the process of reproduction. I suggest you dont take my word for it but do some research than you will kick yourself for the lies you shielded. When you know what you are talking about you can take a postion. It is obvious that is very difficult to those of you that think education is the same as knowledge. Education is repititious memorizing and knowledge is understanding. There are experts on many contradictions, that doesnt make them wise, only informed about the ways of something through its teachings.
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Like one of you said most women dont even know they are pregnant for awhile, so why would someone get an abortion the day after they have sex when the baby is just starting to form. This rarly happens if EVER, I personally dont know of one case. MOst people get abortions long after the 1st day and by the 3rd week the baby alread has a heartbeat you can find. Just a buch of cells ? That's a very selfish way to justify an even more irresponsible act than the conception which sprung it.
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Poogle: you nor no one anywhere anyhow anyway has ever tested anything shape or form just "poping into existance" Oh, you have made your own Universe out of thin air? Im sorry, I thought there was only one universe.
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The scientific method does not support the big bang, you cannot recreate it, you have not even observed it, much less understood it.
 
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BrandenH

New member
Endeavour, yes even if she would have been loyal we would be having this conversation. Simple reason as so many other ppl have already posted. You have no clue what you're talking about. Chemisty and biology have alot to do with the universe just "popping into existance" because its a certain chemistry that made it go "pop". It certainly wasn't any higher being like you constantly want to preach. God didn't just go: let there be a universe and "pop" it was there. By the way, I'm going to ask you once again to stop blabbering on about my ex-gf. You have no clue about what really happened so why don't you take your uneducated oppinion and do something else with it. I find it ironic that you are constantly trying to find excuses for both the priest and my ex. Now suddenly its no longer the priest but her. Why ? Because he is a priest ?

By the way, in regard of reading your complete post above I hope you seriously won't get banned. I can't believe you went at a woman over her oppinion on this..who knows better about life developing Endeavour ? A priest like you, who probably never even had sex, or a woman, who has children already ?

Christian
 
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dustinjp2012

New member
You are trying to lecture us about the scientific method? You showed an ignorance of it in your other thread, and now you want to try to prove that part of science isn't scientific? Cosmological scientists have been studying the big bang for many years, and have plenty of supporting evidence. Since they follow the scientific method, they should know if the big bang isn't scientific!

Quick hint: you don't need to recreate something or even fully understand something for it to be scientific.
 
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