Cloning and Stem Cell Research

worldhistory0

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Points
6
When most people hear the mention of cloning they imagine a breed of superior humans born without a soul that try to take over the world in some kind of apocalyptic invasion. Religious zealots spread fear by shouting doomsday and barking passages from Revelations.

The reality of cloning is that nature herself is the greatest cloning mechanism. In close to one out of every seventy-five human conceptions, the fertilized ovum splits and produces what we have become to know as twins. With embryo cloning, or "artificial twinning", this same process is done intentionally in a lab.

There are actually three types of cloning, embryo cloning as I mentioned above, adult DNA cloning and therapeutic cloning. The adult DNA cloning is a technique intended to produce a duplicate of an already living animal. Therapeutic cloning goes through the same initial stages as DNA cloning except that the stem cells are removed from the pre-embryo for the purpose of producing tissue or a whole organ for a perfectly matching transplant back into the person who supplied the DNA. The pre-embryo dies in this process and therein lays the controversy. All three cloning processes raise major ethical concern in our society when applied to humans.

The cloning of animal subjects seems to show potentially beneficial results. Transgenic pigs can be created with human genes allowing them to grow compatible hearts, livers and kidneys to save thousands of lives. These transgenic animals can also produce human hormones and proteins in their milk which, once separated, carry the power to heal humans.

Many groups and individuals question the morality of cloning and possible harmful effects if the technology falls into the wrong hands. Nazi Germany started a practice through which humans were bred to maximize certain traits. What would have happened if they had cloning technology? Would striving to create this master species of humans cause our own demise?

It is my opinion that we all consciously or unconsciously participate in manual trait manipulation, we choose our mates based upon some physical or mental trait we favor. Whether alike our own or completely different, their traits have a good chance of passing on to our children. This practice has been going on for thousands of years.

I knowingly manipulated the traits of my daughter. I possess the genetic predisposition of high bicep peaks and short points of muscle insertion to the bone. This makes for striated muscles that really bulge when flexed, traits possessed by top professional bodybuilders. This, combined with a genius level IQ and rich athletic family background, made me desire a mate with similar traits. The mother of my daughter has a close level of intelligence, the right physical traits and championship caliber athletic background in her family. My intentions were to increase the chance of these physical and mental traits being passed on so that my child would have all of the necessary gifts to become an Olympic athlete if he or she desired. This has proven true because she has exceeded all of our expectations and is always many steps ahead of what is considered to be average for her age.

Many pro-life supporters argue that an embryo is a human person with a soul. The embryo would be killed whether harvesting stem cells or subjecting it to most of the cloning processes. There is always a possibility of injuring or killing the embryo.

I propose using embryos and fetuses from willing mothers who are going through the steps to terminating the fetus. Many labs and universities could compensate her for going with this option. Many women who have difficulty dealing with a lost or aborted child can at least take pride that their loss might not have been for nothing. Although costly and time consuming, I think stem cells should be able to be harvested from donated umbilical cord blood when parents have the option of donating. I believe that as a woman has the right to choose whether to abort or carry a pregnancy to term we, as humans, should have the individual right to self-cloning technology.

The usefulness of stem cells cannot be argued. A stem cell is a primitive cell with the ability to change into any of the other two-hundred and ten cells in the human body. This means that any organ or tissue could be renewed and re-grown, cancers and most diseases would become a problem of the past. So far, scientists have been able to duplicate one-hundred and ten cells with stem cells.

Stem cells and cloning technology can be used to prolong life and revitalize failing and degrading organs. All technological advancement of the future might have to rely on cloning and stem cells if our scientists are to live long enough to carry out groundbreaking research. This would be a possible scenario if we have to play 'catch up' most of our lives despite the use of better teaching and learning techniques.

I also have a theory supporting such long claims to longevity as seen in the bible. Since stem cells, t-cells and growth hormone are all abundant within the fetus, placenta and umbilical cord, wouldn't eating it increase longevity? During my life I have scoured the bible and various historical texts and haven't been able to find out what the early people did with these parts during normal births and stillborns. Are the biblical claims to high longevity explainable through science? Were they unwittingly cannibals, eating stillborns, placentas or umbilical cords? These are people that probably went without food for long periods of time. Pregnancy with all its complications would be no stranger to them because they had no contraceptives and sometimes possessed thirty or more wives.

Aside from my wild theories I do think that cloning technology and stem cell therapies can treat, prevent and cure many diseases we have come to fear. Theoretically, subjects with mild retardation or paralysis could become functional. On the other hand, what would happen if we took someone of Einstein-like intelligence and increased their brain cell count with daily stem cell therapy?

George Bush halted all stem cell research temporarily, and then approved experimentation with sixty stem cell lines. Unfortunately, in that time many of the lines have degraded and many are owned by private research companies. About twelve lines are still available to public research facilities and universities but they are degrading rapidly.

Despite opinions comparing cloning technology and the harvest of stem cells as murder, no agreement has been made for at what point after conception personhood begins. Once this is resolved technology can move on. This ethical standstill of medicine versus religion and morals is as dangerous as the integration of church and state. I think most of the critics would agree if they found their child laying in a hospital bed waiting for an organ or paralyzed from the waist down.
 
I'm against reproductive cloning, nearly all clone among animals have died at an early age. Scientist went through approximately 200 attempts to clone a sheep, before one was finally born. Still, the sheep born died at an early age.

Therapeutic cloning? I support it, because the embryo is manipulated to create certain genetic cells to grow organs that can help patients. (I'm not talking about Recombinant DNA cloning)

An Embryo to me is alive once it has a heart beat.
 
Before you post more on this subject, or any topic that differentiates between being 'alive' and having 'personhood', please find time to research the pre-WWII eugenics movement in Europe. This led directly to the T-4 Euthanasia program, even before it was applied to 11 million Jews, Roma gypsies, communists, Catholics, and other 'political' prisoners in Nazi Germany.
 
First of all, there is ONE process with three different aims, not three processes.

Secondly, the technology of cloning is still very dodgy. Texas A&M has started an animal cloning program, but the cost is highly prohibitive and the results are one viable organism from a few hundred failures. While the failures are being reduced, its not there yet. There are still problems with many of the organisms cloned as the process, which is basically taking a cell and sucking out the DNA and then using a needle to insert new DNA, leads to a high percentage of damaged DNA. Again, the process is getting better, but its not reliable yet. I can count on both hands the numbers of successfully cloned maofftopicls produced globally- maybe even one hand. So, that should tell you something about the state of the technology.

Third point, genetic diversity. The entire reason organisms have sex is to mix genes. Otherwise the entire species could easily just sprout offspring off their hips and be done with it. Think about the amount of energy an organism puts into finding a mate, attracting that mate, keeping that mate away from others of its species, mating and then rearing the child. It would be much easier to just produce and rear the child. So many organisms do so. Why don't the so-called higher organisms? Because of an obvious need for genetic diversity. While the occasional clone is not nessicarily a bad thing, cloning large numbers in the effort to produce identical herds or to preserve species is going to end in ultimate failure. If you clone a herd of sheep all it takes is one disease. If you clone mountain gorrillas, all it takes is one disease. You are creating a genetic bottleneck from which a wild species probably cannot recover. Look at the problems with cheetahs. They had a natural reduction of numbers until only a handful were left, so all living cheetahs are descended from that same handful. And they are having massive problems trying to keep the species going.

So, its not always about ethics. Sometimes it is about ability and effectiveness.

Further, you are mixing up cloning with genetic modification. The technology for genetic modification is much more advanced. While I see all the good that genetic modification does in principle, the product is not always the best. So while we can produce salt and drought tolerant grains for people to grow in impovershed areas, what often happens is that the seeds of the grains cannot be reserved for the next year because they are not viable. So each year poor farmers are forced to buy new seed, thus expending money that they don't have.
 
Further, George Bush to did not "halt" all research. He limited the embryonic research to existing lines.

The usefulness of embryonic stem cell research CAN be argued. Embryonic research has not shown the promise that adult stem cell research shows. Embryonic stem cell research is a controversy which is fueled entirely by the greed of the scientific community.
 
Cloning organs I can agree with, rather than having a donor who's willing to sacrafice a body part to save a child or an adult.

But cloning a person or another animal I disagree with. For someone to be born in a lab, having no parents, or to copy one's identity, is just plain wrong.

Even to experiment with clones for further research in depth is also wrong.
 
Hmmm quite proud of ourselves aren't we?


First off a question: Didn't GW Bush simply halt research using PUBLIC funding (taxpayer's dollars), and not private research?

............

As for my opinion:
There are many aspects and implications of cloning to consider. I doubt that even as the genius you are, you've probably not considered them all.

One thing to think about is whether the earth can sustain continued growth of population coupled with the technology that is allowing humans to live longer. We have the instinct to perserve life, but in the big picture, is it ethical to extend life?


The morality of the issue is quite difficult, despite your religous beliefs. I'm reliously agnostic, but I still feel that killing a live human being (otherwise healthy) is wrong.
 
ok, its agroup of cells, not a human, got it? and "killing" the cells in the attempt to fix cancer/aids/CF ect. is a worthy cause IMO
 
I'm not even sure if your barking in the right forrest let along up the right tree with that one. I'm part of the scientific community and the extent of my greed is to work out how i can buy the stuff i want this summer holiday on a temporarily non-existant income.....

Moony
 
maybe with all this cloning we will be able to save more lives and fix cancer etc. Hurray! People will live longer!

But...old people don't work anymore, if they get older and older the younger people will have to pay for them. A higher number of the population will become non-functional. Notice the population on our planet is growing dramaticly, I hope everybody agrees that this is a bad thing. With cloning it would grow even faster!

And if we can genetically manipulate cells the world is going to be full of "perfect" people.


And have you thought of the bad things that can happen? IF some crazy warlord get his hands on cloning technology (talking about fully cloning HUMANS) he could make huge armies.

Let nature do its work or for the relegious people: lets stop playing god.


I can't say enough that I am 100% AGAINST cloning/genetically manipulating
 
i think you've either watched Aeon Flux one too many times or you have too many religious friends. but eitherway, i'll wait for a decent reason as to why.
 
I fully support stem cell research and or cloning.

If the technology doesn't work, then it doesn't work and as such should be dumped but that should be up to the scientists to decide.

I see more good than bad coming from both.
 
There is no scientific or ethical reason that we should make people live forever. Death is a natural process and not evil. So stop anthropomophizing death into this horrible thing. Further, there is currently no way to stop the "biological clock" and cloning is not a means of doing so- again you are mixing up cloning with genetic modification. Please at least do some basic research so you at least know what the terms are.

It is not merely a group of cells, it is a classical ethical deliofftopic. Do the needs of the one out weigh the needs of the many? Should one (potential) human be sacrificed so that others may live, or at least may live longer or more productively? This is the actual ethical argument to cloning, not the side line of right to life. If you want to discuss the ethics of cloning, this is the dicussion that needs to be had.

The potential for GM is great, how many thousands of people could be fed because of GM grains and crops? How many congenital diseases can be controled or cured? I think that this indicates a great future use for GM. However, I can see little advancement from cloning. Basically, in raw scientific terms, cloning is perfecting the art of low biodiversity. Low biodiversity causes many proplems, founders effects, recessive genes appearing, shorter lifespans and loss of quality of life can all result from low genetic diversity within a population. If you have any doubt of it, find isolated communities and study their medical books.

Outside the occasional use in preservation of a needed specimen, I see little future for cloning other then as a novelty for pet owners.
 
At what point is an embryo a human? When the baby is born? When the heart starts beating? At conception? I favor the conception view. Thus I have a problem with destroying an embryo to get stem cells for research.

However, when you can gather stem cells without killing an embryo, let them do all the research they want.
 
No reason to make people live forever? I dunno, I imagine there would be a large demand.

Death isn't evil, but neither is life so there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to live a extremely long time.
 
Just because people would like it doesn't make it an ethical thing to do.

Please re-read the bold text in my first post... (post #9)
 
Of course it doesn't, and I am sorry I implied that,

However it doesn't make it unethical.

A longer lifespan would of course present unique challenges, but I have no doubt that we could solve those.

The same argument could be made against modern medicine, after all it has resulted in a longer average lifespan.
 
To what cost?

It is finacially breaking the country, causing older people to be forgotten by family and cast aside, increasing the cost of medical care due to the increase in illness, and causing many to live in poverty due to having exceeded thier planned incomes.

In and of itself, it is neither ethical nor inethical. But it does bring up many ethical issues that need to be delt with- right to die, right to life, right to quality of life, who pays for the health care and how, who provides health care and how. These are all issues you are just blithly jumping over for the sake of a phantom that looks better on paper then it will ever play out in real life. If you have any doubts of this, go spend some time in a nursing home.
 
Back
Top