thanks jay p for your answer.. if it helps i am in uk and my mercedes is 2.0i w124 chassis 200e. manual. it backfired from exhaust with black smoke ( or it did last time i got it started) a couple of times and also sounds like its coming from the engine aswell. as stated i ran it right out of fuel a few times now but never had this problem. i put about 5 litres in tank turned key a couple of clicks and fuel pump buzzes like normal but still no enigne firing up will check relay(fuel) in morning as dark now any other suggestions??? many thanks guys and gals ps no probs with starter motor that works like normal