According to my research the Catholics perverted the gospel so I am converting, every time I ask about this I just get called a bigot even though the evidence shows me the overwhelming truth is just that. Now I know 50 raging catholics will come in here and say they were the first religion but the evidence suggest otherwise.. i.e. google, wikipedia, a few religious history books noted this.
Isn't it true that The Church of Jesus Christ came before catholicism?
You are right on!
1.Purgatory does not exist, is not in the Bible, and nullifies Jesus' sacrifice for us on the cross. If purgatory were true, Christ died for nothing, because that would mean that we could go to purgatory and pay for our own sins. Purgatory negates the death, burial, resurrection and ascention of Jesus Christ. There is NOTHING we can do to add to or detract from Christs' atonement for our sins. Ephesians 2:5 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God-not of works, so that no one can boast".
2.Praying to saints and to Mary. Only God is omnipresent and omniscient and can hear the prayers of each indiviual who is praying at the same time. We do not need the "help" of the saints and Mary to reach God. Jesus taught us to say "Our Father, Who art in heaven..." NOT "saint whoever".
3.Mary is not co-redemptress. She was not "the immaculate conception". Neither was her mother. Both women were born the ordinary way. The ONLY ONE who was ever conceived without sexual relations was Jesus. She is NOT "The queen of heaven". She is the mother of the humanity of Jesus. She is NOT the "Mother of God"
4.The bread and the wine do not turn into the actual body and blood of Jesus. Luke 22:19 "This is my body."...Jesus is standing in his body. The bread He is holding cannot be His body. It MUST be a SYMBOL of His body. "This cup is the new covenant in my blood.".....Jesus is standing with His blood coursing through His arteries and veins. Therefore the wine MUST be a SYMBOL of His blood.
5."There is one mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus". Our sins are to be confessed to God through Jesus, not to a priest. "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US." No priest involved. Jesus did not teach to confess to a priest, but to God in Jesus name.
6.There is no such thing as "Holy Water". Tap water is still tap water even if it has been "blessed" by a priest. Holy water will not create miracles such as healing of people. Only God, through the power of the Holy Spirit has the power to heal. The "blessed" water has no special properties.
7.Peter was NOT the "first pope". The "Rock" that Jesus refered to as the rock upon which He will build His church was Peter's confession,"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God", not Peter himself. Peter's name means 'pebble'. The confession is a 'boulder'.Christ's church is built upon the confession.
8.The pope is not the "Vicar of Christ." He does not represent Christ on earth. He is not infallible, whether he speaks "in the chair", or ex cathedra, "out of the chair".Church doctrines that are based on his pronouncements are invalid because they do not have the power or authorship of God.
9.Jesus is not still on the cross as your crucifixes depict. He is risen, the cross is empty. His sacrifice was "once for all". He is not being continually sacrificed. He sits at the right hand of God interceding for the saints. He is not on the cross.
10.The word "saints" refers to all Christians, not to certain "holy" people. Paul continually refers to us as "saints" There was no such thing as 'canonization' of saints at that time. All Christians are living saints.# pope/pontiff ... not Biblical. (Julius Caesar was Pontifex Maximus in 63BC)
11. nun ... not Biblical. (not found in scripture)
12. celibacy of priests/nuns ...not Biblical. (church leaders urged to have wife and children)
13.rosary beads ... not Biblical. Vain repetitions. (from Chaldean religion - Babylonish)
14. icons & statues ... not Biblical. (idolatry & graven images forbidden)
15. novenas ... not Biblical. (scripture teaches against "repetitions" & superstition)
16."hail Mary's" ... not Biblical. (scripture teaches against "repetitions")
17.Beatification ... not Biblical. (no such ritual in scripture)
18.infant baptism ... not Biblical. (False security.. baptism is for believers)
19.Inquisitions ... not Biblical. (burning Christians alive at the stake is not scriptural)
1.Purgatory does not exist, is not in the Bible, and nullifies Jesus' sacrifice for us on the cross. If purgatory were true, Christ died for nothing, because that would mean that we could go to purgatory and pay for our own sins. Purgatory negates the death, burial, resurrection and ascention of Jesus Christ. There is NOTHING we can do to add to or detract from Christs' atonement for our sins. Ephesians 2:5 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God-not of works, so that no one can boast".
2.Praying to saints and to Mary. Only God is omnipresent and omniscient and can hear the prayers of each indiviual who is praying at the same time. We do not need the "help" of the saints and Mary to reach God. Jesus taught us to say "Our Father, Who art in heaven..." NOT "saint whoever".
3.Mary is not co-redemptress. She was not "the immaculate conception". Neither was her mother. Both women were born the ordinary way. The ONLY ONE who was ever conceived without sexual relations was Jesus. She is NOT "The queen of heaven". She is the mother of the humanity of Jesus. She is NOT the "Mother of God"
4.The bread and the wine do not turn into the actual body and blood of Jesus. Luke 22:19 "This is my body."...Jesus is standing in his body. The bread He is holding cannot be His body. It MUST be a SYMBOL of His body. "This cup is the new covenant in my blood.".....Jesus is standing with His blood coursing through His arteries and veins. Therefore the wine MUST be a SYMBOL of His blood.
5."There is one mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus". Our sins are to be confessed to God through Jesus, not to a priest. "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US." No priest involved. Jesus did not teach to confess to a priest, but to God in Jesus name.
6.There is no such thing as "Holy Water". Tap water is still tap water even if it has been "blessed" by a priest. Holy water will not create miracles such as healing of people. Only God, through the power of the Holy Spirit has the power to heal. The "blessed" water has no special properties.
7.Peter was NOT the "first pope". The "Rock" that Jesus refered to as the rock upon which He will build His church was Peter's confession,"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God", not Peter himself. Peter's name means 'pebble'. The confession is a 'boulder'.Christ's church is built upon the confession.
8.The pope is not the "Vicar of Christ." He does not represent Christ on earth. He is not infallible, whether he speaks "in the chair", or ex cathedra, "out of the chair".Church doctrines that are based on his pronouncements are invalid because they do not have the power or authorship of God.
9.Jesus is not still on the cross as your crucifixes depict. He is risen, the cross is empty. His sacrifice was "once for all". He is not being continually sacrificed. He sits at the right hand of God interceding for the saints. He is not on the cross.
10.The word "saints" refers to all Christians, not to certain "holy" people. Paul continually refers to us as "saints" There was no such thing as 'canonization' of saints at that time. All Christians are living saints.# pope/pontiff ... not Biblical. (Julius Caesar was Pontifex Maximus in 63BC)
11. nun ... not Biblical. (not found in scripture)
12. celibacy of priests/nuns ...not Biblical. (church leaders urged to have wife and children)
13.rosary beads ... not Biblical. Vain repetitions. (from Chaldean religion - Babylonish)
14. icons & statues ... not Biblical. (idolatry & graven images forbidden)
15. novenas ... not Biblical. (scripture teaches against "repetitions" & superstition)
16."hail Mary's" ... not Biblical. (scripture teaches against "repetitions")
17.Beatification ... not Biblical. (no such ritual in scripture)
18.infant baptism ... not Biblical. (False security.. baptism is for believers)
19.Inquisitions ... not Biblical. (burning Christians alive at the stake is not scriptural)
Not really.
There were many different groups running around claiming to have the truth.
Paul had seven bishops with him.
There were also the Arians and the Essenes.
Hordes of others.
The Catholics were just the first successful try at making one agreed upon story among them.
Even to achieve that much agreement required the full power of a Roman Emperor.
It failed shortly after with the Great Schism and the Eastern Orthodox became the rival of Roman Orthodox. Later the oman Orhodox fragmented and all the protestant sects split off of it.
All of your fundamentalist protestant sects are direct descendants of the Roman Catholic Church and still follow the Nicene Creed.
There were many different groups running around claiming to have the truth.
Paul had seven bishops with him.
There were also the Arians and the Essenes.
Hordes of others.
The Catholics were just the first successful try at making one agreed upon story among them.
Even to achieve that much agreement required the full power of a Roman Emperor.
It failed shortly after with the Great Schism and the Eastern Orthodox became the rival of Roman Orthodox. Later the oman Orhodox fragmented and all the protestant sects split off of it.
All of your fundamentalist protestant sects are direct descendants of the Roman Catholic Church and still follow the Nicene Creed.
"According to your research....", you see only want you want to see.
The Church of Jesus Christ can be directly traced to the times of the Apostles. In 1054, the Great Schism of the Church occur and then there were two - the Roman Catholic Church of the West and the Orthodox Church of the East. So only the Catholic and Othrodox can claimed to be the apostolic church of Christ.
The Church of Jesus Christ can be directly traced to the times of the Apostles. In 1054, the Great Schism of the Church occur and then there were two - the Roman Catholic Church of the West and the Orthodox Church of the East. So only the Catholic and Othrodox can claimed to be the apostolic church of Christ.
TruthRevealed
New member
"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." - 107 AD St. Ignatius of Antioch
The early Christian Church, while very different in physical size, wealth, and status, was practicing all seven sacraments before Nicaea and followed the teachings of the bishops. The papacy didn't have the powers it had today, but there is no doubt that the Catholic Church is what came from early Christianity. There was no other church until the Orthodox left in 1054. The last book of the New Testament had been written but the Bible cannon had not been finalized (by the way, Biblical Cannon was not a topic at the Council of Nicaea, which focused mainly on the Arian heresy and creating the profession of faith). Writings that would eventually be excluded from the Canon were still floating around, and Christian communities faced on-and-off persecution by the Roman Empire.
The early Christian Church, while very different in physical size, wealth, and status, was practicing all seven sacraments before Nicaea and followed the teachings of the bishops. The papacy didn't have the powers it had today, but there is no doubt that the Catholic Church is what came from early Christianity. There was no other church until the Orthodox left in 1054. The last book of the New Testament had been written but the Bible cannon had not been finalized (by the way, Biblical Cannon was not a topic at the Council of Nicaea, which focused mainly on the Arian heresy and creating the profession of faith). Writings that would eventually be excluded from the Canon were still floating around, and Christian communities faced on-and-off persecution by the Roman Empire.
The word Catholic means universal it was first used in the first century
you might want to read the antenicene fathers to learn about the early period of the Church. edit the modern catholic church does have some teachings which are not found in the Eastern Orthodox Church nor the Oriental Orthodox church. For example the immaculate conception of Mary. There are many teachings of the modern Roman Catholic Church which did not exist prior to 1054.
you might want to read the antenicene fathers to learn about the early period of the Church. edit the modern catholic church does have some teachings which are not found in the Eastern Orthodox Church nor the Oriental Orthodox church. For example the immaculate conception of Mary. There are many teachings of the modern Roman Catholic Church which did not exist prior to 1054.
SusannaLIVES
New member
the church by definition found in the Holy Living Word of God is: The Body of Christ, true followers of His Word and His teachings
the RCC was the early church but yeah they most assuredly corrupted His Word for sake of their traditions, greed and power, quantity over quality...it's all there in Daniel and Revelation as well as earth's history...
the RCC was the early church but yeah they most assuredly corrupted His Word for sake of their traditions, greed and power, quantity over quality...it's all there in Daniel and Revelation as well as earth's history...BrigalowBloke
New member
No, and that is flat.
Sour lime has the facts and I'll add this. Any sects that existed 1700 or more years ago no longer exist.
And I'm not Catholic. I have just got some grip on real, not faked history.
Sour lime has the facts and I'll add this. Any sects that existed 1700 or more years ago no longer exist.
And I'm not Catholic. I have just got some grip on real, not faked history.
UncleGuido
New member
What research? The Bible is a Catholic book. Compiled and preserved by the Catholic Church. The protestant attempt to make the Bible their own by removing books which did not support their theology is the corruption, not the other way around.
Jesus made Peter the leader of the Church. He passed that leadership on and today we have an unbroken line of Popes coming all the way form Peter. That's history, my friend
Jesus made Peter the leader of the Church. He passed that leadership on and today we have an unbroken line of Popes coming all the way form Peter. That's history, my friend