Israel Blockades Lebanon

You can do quick Google search and confirm most of what Gajah is saying. I think he's trying to jump a wide gap by suggesting American support for the IRA was on par with the kind of support Hezbollah and Hamas recieve in their communities. None-the-less, the majority of funding for the IRA did come from US and Libyan sources be it clandestine as in the states or open as in Libya.
 
Again, not a fair comparison as the US has the capacity and the willingness to arrest and prosecute those involved in the criminal activity.

However, entertaining your little scenario, I'd say it's entirely possible we would've wiped your little island off the map, depending on who was President.
 
True, but it's not just an unfair comparison - it's a preposterous one. The idea of the UK bombing the USA takes the argument into the realms of fantasy.

Saying that the US authorities turned a blind eye to IRA fundraising is incorrect, as far as I can see. There was doubtless some low-level complicity by Irish-American politicians and police, but at Federal level I always got the impression that they were keen to cut the flow of aid to Irish Republican groups.

Considering just how seriously you got up in Vietnam, I think you would struggle to 'wipe out' a country the size of the UK. (Unless you nuked us!) After all, the only war in living memory which you won single-handed was Grenada, and we are a little bit bigger than them.
 
To be honest if hundreds of rockets were being fired into the UK from Ireland in the space of a week that's more or less exactly what I'd expect to happen, especially if the Irish government were incapable of doing anything about it.

In fact, in that scenario I'd be very surprised if there was anything less than a full invasion by British forces.
 
This is funny coming from someone in a country that was afraid to deal with Serbia by themselves and begged the US to take the lead. However, insults and wrong assumptions about Vietnam aside, wouldn't you agree that 'going it alone' is generally frowned upon in the international community? After all, isn't that the crux of the European discontent with American foreign policy? Let's not forget that no one since WWII has seen the full might of American power brought to bear. Isn't the proportional thing what everyone is so mad at Israel about?
 
That quote refers to idol worshippers. The difference between Jews and radical Muslim is that no Rabbi today reads that passage as a coofftopicnd to wipe a country off the face of the earth. Yes we have a strong injuction against marrying outside he faith, but so does any other ethnic/religious group.
 
FIrst, we really should stop or at least drastically cut our aid to Israel. We give way to much to a country that doesn't need, or deserve it.

There have been many cases where they spy on us, we gave them the patriot missle system which they used to develop their arrow version and then sold to China lok stock n barre against our wishes. We have given about a trillion dollars in aid towards Israel and have gotten what amounts to nothing back. The U.S gets a large amount of hatred thrown it's way for it's support of Israel from the Arab world, which would dissapear if we stopped publicly supporting them, or at least cut our support so that the U.N could pass resolutions punishing Israel which would make it accountable.

And last but not least, they are responsible for the death of dozens of U.S servicemen.

We aid them for a few reasons-

1. The Jews were given a bum rap, and for some reason we feel we owe them.

2. The Christian majority in the U.S feels we need to support Israel for religous purposes.

3. They give us Intell on the region, which we wouldn't even need if we were not allies.

4. They allow us to test our weapons, tactics, and equipment in the situation Israel provides with Palestine/Lebanon.

Your analogy is a bit off-

A more apt analogy would be if I and a few friends were in your house with our machine guns in a gun fight with the police. The police would do all they could to get you out of the situation. No way would they give you a ring and say" Well we would like to help, but you have to do it yourself since it is your house.". But in this situation the police call you and tell you that it is your fault they are in your house, and they don't care that the other side will kill you if you try to stop them, or that they are dug in your basement and you cannot get them out. So the police come in, shoot up your family, your house and then go after the people in your basement.

If a person is so "weak" they get kidnapped, do we blame them?
 
Really? What about the tens of thousands of gang members active in the U.S?

If I live in L.A and MS-13 members kill my family, can I blow up the city in my effort to get to them? Because we all know the U.S government does not catch everyone involved in criminal activites, so if a government of our power cannot do it then how can such a weak one like Lebanon?

P.S- No need to go to the Torah to see racism from Israel, just take a look at their laws.
 
OK, if you're going to be serious then I will too. Just promise not to 'wipe out' my cute little country for the next five minutes while I reply.

Yes, 'going it alone' has been a rare thing amoung the 'powers' of the World for over two hundred years. Even in Vietnam, the US tried to get other countries involved, although their participation was very limited.

I'm really not sure about the 'crux of the European discontent with American foreign policy'. Where individuals are concerned, it seems to divide along broad political lines, ie: the 'left' will condemn the USA whatever they do, and the 'right' will support the USA whatever they do. Trying to steer some kind of middle course and remain objective is a difficult and lonely journey.

Where European countries are concerned, I think we are at a bit of a crossroads. I think eventually common sense will prevail and we will establish a genuine European military coofftopicnd to reflect the Economic union which will become increasingly consolidated. This will lead to a loosening of the post-WWII military ties to the USA, since NATO is looking like an anachronism since the implosion of the Warsaw Pact. Our economic interests are not compatible with those of the USA, and ultimately it is economic strategy which determines military strategy. (On a very fundamental level.)

So I see Europe distancing ourself more and more from US foreign policy and going our own way - although I would still imagine both sides acting together where their interests coincide (such as keeping the Middle Eastern oil flowing.)

I'm sure that there will to some extent be a 'special relationship' between Europe and the USA, due to our historical links, but I would see it as a friendship between equals rather than the rather odd relationship which exists at present, and which seems doesn't seem very satisfactory to either side.
 
Gajah, you forget a major difference. The Israelis are not quoting the torah to justify killing people. The Iraelis don't have Rabbis declaring a religious war. But on the other side, you do have the Muslims quoting and their leaders declaring a religious war.

As far as the US funding of the IRA, you guys should have put a stop to that. Our government should have helped you with it.

But wasn't the cease fire long before 9/11?
 
/sarcasm
No way! Bush do something right? Impossible. What are you smoking?
 
Asking the rest of Europe to try and remember where the UK had been?
 
Very true. Most Americans have never been keen on anything related to terrorism. In the 70's, the IRA was very looked down upon by everyone where I lived.



The problem was not losing in a combat situation in Vietnam. It was a problem of holding and not going further. Basically it was an occupation type of endeavor. The problem with occupations is that military units really do a sucky job at it. If the goal had been to take Vietnam, we could have do so in short order. The problem was trying to go to a certain line and hold there.

Just how many wars has the US been in during your life? Are you old enough to remember Vietnam? Do you really think that we needed any British troops in Afghanistan or either time in Iraq? Certainly not. Winning a war in those countries was so easy that it would be, at best, laughable. Holding the ground is a different matter. But other countries were brought in for political reasons for a show of international support.
 
Sorry mate but if the UK pulled its troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq tomorrow the US would find itself in a whole heap of trouble that I doubt it could dig itself out of.
 
Ah ye olde UK and USA thing , I got a few things to say about this... Americans suck at war, sure you have resources but do you have brains? no. Just look at iraq and you'll see what I mean the only way you would ever defeat the UK in a war is if you used Nukes, come on that's normally the only way you can win even against small tiny island countries like Japan HAHAHAA americans make me laugh - we're the world's superpower blah blah. I would personally love for there to be a war with the usa I would actually sign up for the RAF to bomb some of them that would make my day
 
Hello, I would like to introduce you to the bandwagon. Sure, its crowded, but there is always room for one more. Just have someone scoot over a bit and plenty of room. Its nice in the bandwagon. You don't have to think critically and there is always someone handing out pamphlets for your enjoyment and so you will know precisly what to say and think. I hope you enjoy your stay at the bandwagon, and what ever you do- don't read anything not previously approved. It makes the driver mad.
 
Israeli Blitzkrieg hits central Beirut

Israeli jets have hit central Beirut for the first time and dozens more people have been killed in continuing air attacks across south Lebanon, raising the toll there to about 295 people.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/563D1044-AB85-4A30-82B4-77A00ADBB316.htm

I just hope that things get better soon, Israel clearly needs to be held to account for its persistent slaughter of civilians,
 
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