Israel Blockades Lebanon

I think this thread has done a good job of showing many UK members blind support of terrorists. Terrorists kill people, sneak into other countries kill and kidnap, shoot rockets at civilians, do suicide bombings, break their peace treaties, ad nauseum, and yet the majority of the UK posters seem to think that the fault is 100% Israel's for retaliating.
 
1. If you kill everyone in the terror group, they are by definition eliminated. The US cannot stop Al Qaeida or the Iraqi insurgency because we are unwilling to take the gloves off and actually apply our combat power. Force does, and always has worked just fine, ie Romans taking Gaul, Alexander taking Persia, Normans taking Britain, Mohamed taking the Arabian peninsula, Ieyasu crushing his enemies and taking Japan, America nuking Japan into submission; all fantastic examples of applied force resulting in long term peace for the region in which the force was applied.

2. Yes you keep saying "aid Lebanon", but how and to what end? Should they transfer funds? Provide weapons and training so the Lebanese Army can actually stand up to Hezbollah? Maybe even give Lebanon nuclear technology? Should they provide Special Forces for direct action missions, or just as advisors? Should they launch a massive PR campaign? Give specifics. "Aid" Lebanon doesn't cut it. Aid them how?

Where does Hezbollah get the money to do the things they do? You guessed it: Iran and Syria. So tell me again why the US should stop aiding Israel when their enemies in Hezbollah recieve so much aid from nations that are using them to wage a war against Israel by proxy? Or do you favor cutting off all outside aid? The only consistency in any of your arguments is that Israel is bad and you'd like to see Shi'a Islamic fundamentalists controlled by Tehran and Damascus destroy the state of Israel. That is the essense of what you keep saying. Yet the problem remains that it's the Islamic terrorists of Hezbollah and Hamas that keep launching incursions into Israel with homicide bombers, kidnappers, and rockets FROM THE VERY TERRITORIES ISRAEL VACATED IN THEIR LAND FOR PEACE DEALS. Every time Israel gives something up for the sake of peace, their enemies clamour for more. When are you going to wake up and realize that Israel is fighting for its existence against an enemy that will never rest until every inch of what is now Israel is under Islamic control? Or are you awake and secretly harbor a desire to see Israel destroyed but just don't have the balls to say it?
 
Given what so many in the world have said about Israel over the last 30 years, there's no surprise here. Why should they give a damn about a world community that treats them the way they do?
 
Ok I say we adopt this policey in every town and city in the US with a violent crime problem. That way the people will be so scared nobody will ever step out of line again. Nuke Washington D.C. or New York or maybe L.A. That'll solve all the problems.

I thought the west considered the tactics and techniques of dictators to be criminal.

Nothing justified the use of atomic weapons in WW2 against Japan. People their are still suffering and dieing agonisingly slow and painful deaths from cancers caused by the radioactive fallout. Now perhaps if countries like the USA and UK were't arming the world to the teeth we'd see less blood shed and violence in the first place.

Lets not forget Japan became a threat when the west sold it guns and forced it to open up trade. Ironically Israel was also armed by the west. As was Iran and Iraq. Does anybody see a pattern their?
 
See, you are wrong yet again. I do care about the Lebanese and it breaks my heart to see the images of children maimed by what's going on. The people I don't give a damn about (beyond a vested interest in seeing them die horrible painful deaths) is Hezbollah and their supporters, especially the ones who put their families at risk by leaving them in homes used to store or lauch rocket attacks against Israeli citizens in the hopes Israel will kill them and they can be used as propaganda. What kind of people put their families at risk like that? Yet those are the people you support.
 
So why, referring back to my original point of Jews have a grossy disproportionate amount of political influence and wealth in the US, is it still a case of when Israel says jump, US says how high?

As I said, tail wagging the dog.

Sometimes I think the US's unwavering support for Israel may be a form of national guilt. Y'know in WW2 pre Pearl Harbour, when the US just sat back and let the holocaust happen?
 
When will you people realize the terrorist threat to the west is not a matter for criminal law and instead one for military force? This is not the R.A.F we're talking about. In law enforcement, you arrest offenders in the hopes of rehabilitation. In war, you kill your enemy where you find them. Both principles are sanctioned by international law and the rights of soverign gov'ts. Islamic militancy is not a crime, it's an act of war, according to their own admission. Open your eyes and understand the threat.

Nuking Japan saved American lives, which makes it completely justified. Ironically, it also probably saved millions of Japanese lives at the time as well, because we didn't have to invade. In war, you look after your own first and foremost. If you'd have ever worn a uniform, you'd know that.

The most common small arm in the world is the Kalashnikov AK-47 and it's variants. The US and the UK do not manufacture the Kalashnikov. If the US and the UK did not supply arms, someone else would've. Regardless, the presence or absence of weapons does not remove the desire to visit violence on your enemies. This kind of idiot thinking is what motivates people to support gun control measures that have been proven over and over again to actually increase the level of violence in a society. (gun control and it's primary purpose being the removal of a populations ability to resist the tyranny of it's govt' is the subject for another thread)

All the way around, you're entire argument is factually incorrect and philosophically bankrupt.
 
Heres the key statement from that post, stinks of an 'all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others' mentality.
 
What you smell has more to do with the way DCombatives has stated it that what it actually means...

Let's not forget there were any number of Brits and others killed and tortured by the Japanese as well. At that point in WWII there were still quite a few Brits along with Americans and others in Japanese prison camps.

Additionally there were vast numbers of Asians (Filipinos etc.) who suffered greatly at the hands of the Japanese - and would have continued to suffer had Japan pressed forward with plans for a battle on homesoil.

If you are unaware of the suffering of Americans and others (yes including the Brits) during their time in Japanese prison camps then I suggest you read up. If you think that Japan would have somehow magically stopped their wanton abuse of POW's and just given up the war at the point when the Americans dropped the atomic bombs - then I suggest you read up a bit more on the history of that era.
 
So out of curiosity why would the same not apply to any other country that was part of the Allied forces? Britain for that matter - why would Britain not have that same 'guilt'? It's not as if the US fought WWII alone ya know.

I think the idea of some sort of national collective guilt is silly. At least as far as the US is concerned. Your average American today probably knows prescious little about the holocaust. Other than 'Hitler was bad' and 'a lot of Jews were killed'.... you give them far too much credit.
 
The US could have either dropped the nukes or invaded Japan, and they calculated quite rightly that invasion would have meant much more casualties on both sides. It was completely logical if you think about it.

I like the way when people talk about the US bombing Japan they make out like it was just a random act of aggression. Japan did bomb them first y'know.
 
Hell, yeah! I suppose you're right.

The US support for Israel must be a combination of 2 things.

Ethnic Jews are the political, economic heavyweights of America and own a significant portion of the media.

And, the US has a vested interest in bankrolling it's only real ally in the Middle East.
 
Wow, you might actually be starting to catch on. Slip said it best, but at it's core, it's the idea that you take care of your own first and foremost. You do not sacrifice your own soldiers or citizens lives when there is a safer way to accomplish your objectives. All human life is precious, but when the time comes that someone has to die no matter what, you have to make a value judgement on who's life you are going to preserve and at what cost. In the case of Japan, it's a matter of choosing to kill 200,000 people in the nuclear blast, and let another 500,000 die over the years from the radiation, or invade Japan with over a million men who would've had to fight virtually every man woman and child on the islands. Millions would've died. Let's not forget the Japanese trend of commiting suicide instead of being occupied like the hundreds that jumped from suicide cliff in Okinawa.

For the Israelis, it's pretty simple as well: If they do nothing, Israelis die. If they fight back, Israelis die. The question is in which instance do more Israelis die, and in which one is there the potential for an eventual end of hostilities? The Israeli gov't, like every gov't, has an obligation to protect the lives and ensure the security of Israeli citizens first and foremost. The well being of the Lebanese comes second to that obligation. I would expect Lebanon to hold a similar view that places Lebanese citizens first and Israelis second. Since the majority of Hezbollah's fighters are neither Israeli nor Lebanese, I would think both nations would put the lives of it's own citizens ahead of the well being of Hezbollah.

Maybe I can put this into terms you're limited comprehension can understand: if you and your family were on a sinking ship in the North Atlantic, who would you put in the life boat first: your family or mine?
 
Whereas, if you were the US government you'd fill the lifeboat up with the Israelis first and hand them all a blank cheque
 
Here's an interesting factoid: The US gov't has identified over $6 billion of the $65 billion spent to 'assist' Katrina victimes was abused, used for hookers, strippers, TV's, trips to Vegas, etc., which exceeds the $ 4 billion given to Israel last year. Apparently, we give blank checks to everyone. However, if you think an Israeli is getting a seat before my kids, you're out of your mind.
 
Then why doesn't Europe have a sense of guilt over the holocaust? They weren't really trying to help the Jews that were being exterminated. They were only trying to protect themselves. And again today, they are still happy to sit back and watch Jews get killed.
 
Not at all. I would love it if Lebanon told Israel to give them 30 days to clean out Hezebollah and maybe even ask them for some logistical help to do so. But since they have failed to do what they have promised for six years, I doubt they would do that.
 
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