Israel Blockades Lebanon
- Thread starter ChinoC
- Start date
sailornight6
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- Feb 21, 2008
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Concentration camps are not death camps, two entirely different things, the term has been warped by what Hitler did, a concentration camp is a camp where a group of people (normally non combatants) are held together ie concentrated.
The US has its fair share of concentration camps from what I've heard. In fact depending on your perspective, the camp Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp.
The US has its fair share of concentration camps from what I've heard. In fact depending on your perspective, the camp Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp.
It is terrible when Israel does damage to innocent civilians and their properties. When this is done, I would like to see Israel make some type of reparations for the damage they have done. But at the same time, I would like to see Hezebollah and their supporters pay through the teeth for it too.
FrEEMyMoBBFiGg@Zl916
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- Apr 9, 2008
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They are if they're carrying war supplies and Hezbollah is known to use them to transport munitions. For what Israeli missles cost, I'd be willing to be every one of them has been carefully targeted. Israel has fairly sophisticated anti-battery radar. How do you think they know to turn on the air raid sirens? They use the radar to trianglulate the location of the firing point, and return fire to that point, often the out-going is on it's way before the incoming even lands. What you find offensive, is that Israel doesn't bother to check what is at those coordinates, they just return fire. Hezbollah knows this, and uses populated areas as launch sites with the expectation that Israel will return fire and kill those civilians. It's part of a conscious effort to generate the very anger you feel about Israel killing 'innocents'. The problem is, your anger is not directed at the people who put those civilians in harms way in the first place: Hezbollah. Israel knows what they are doing too, but refuses to be intimidated in that way. My willingness to accept what Israel is doing comes from the knowledge that it's Hezbollah who is putting civilians in the cross hairs of Israeli gunners. Israel's only other option is to not return fire, which only serves the interests of Hezbollah. Israel is damned if the do, damned if they don't; and in that situation, I see no reason why they shouldn't just go ahead and shoot back in the hopes they might get some of Hezbollah. Their other option is to not shoot back, in which case Hezbollah now has what can be considered a secure launch site for future attacks.
snoopyinaction
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the guys in GTMO are 'unlawful combatants', not 'non-combatants'. Big difference.
But its not like Israel dont understand these tactics, they know that civilians are going to die and that Hezbollah will have already cleared out. They are just firing in the blind hope that they will take out one or two terrorists for every couple of dozen civilians - to me that is not right.
lafalot091
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- Apr 4, 2008
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But they havn't been tried so they are innocent. That makes it a concentration camp.
ElizabethK
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- Apr 10, 2008
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last time I checked the principle of "Innocent until proven Guilty" was the defining principle of US justice...or doesn't that include Muslims?
Yep, in 1922 alone 20,000 Dutch died in British concentration/hell camps
However, argueably the worst genocide in human history was the Catholic inquisition, but I'm sure Stalin would still win hands down when it comes to genocide.
And DC, yes certainly a significant proportion of Jews believe that all non-Jews(including gentile Americans ) are inferior. I must admit that I do not know to what extent the Talmud is incorporated into Israeli law.
However, an orthodox Jew believes that although all 'beings' have a soul, a non-Jew is the same as a animal. Putting it in very simple laymans terns, Jews have an extra soul as it were. Its called Nefesh Elokis. This is passed down genitically through the maternal bloodline and is why many Jews are fixated with racial purity (Um...kinda reminds me of something else!).
That may be why Israel is so stuck on Jewish bloodlines to determine who is and who is not a Jew. It doesn't seem to matter whether you practice the religion. You are born with the Godly Nefesh Elokis soul if you are a Jew. This is not something you can shed. So basically no matter how righteous a Gentile is, he can never get the Godly soul, and no matter how foul a Jew is, he can never lose his Godly soul.
I call this racism
This more bizarre when US Christian Zionists (a contradiction in terms!) actually support Jews as the 'chosen people' whilst the very Jews which they support deny the role of Christ as prophet/son of God.
Only in America could Christians wholeheartedly support people that actually deny Christian belief.
I just don't get it
Somehow GWB with his armagedon obsession does
I found this quite amusing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4905411-103552,00.html
However, argueably the worst genocide in human history was the Catholic inquisition, but I'm sure Stalin would still win hands down when it comes to genocide.
And DC, yes certainly a significant proportion of Jews believe that all non-Jews(including gentile Americans ) are inferior. I must admit that I do not know to what extent the Talmud is incorporated into Israeli law.
However, an orthodox Jew believes that although all 'beings' have a soul, a non-Jew is the same as a animal. Putting it in very simple laymans terns, Jews have an extra soul as it were. Its called Nefesh Elokis. This is passed down genitically through the maternal bloodline and is why many Jews are fixated with racial purity (Um...kinda reminds me of something else!).
That may be why Israel is so stuck on Jewish bloodlines to determine who is and who is not a Jew. It doesn't seem to matter whether you practice the religion. You are born with the Godly Nefesh Elokis soul if you are a Jew. This is not something you can shed. So basically no matter how righteous a Gentile is, he can never get the Godly soul, and no matter how foul a Jew is, he can never lose his Godly soul.
I call this racism
This more bizarre when US Christian Zionists (a contradiction in terms!) actually support Jews as the 'chosen people' whilst the very Jews which they support deny the role of Christ as prophet/son of God.
Only in America could Christians wholeheartedly support people that actually deny Christian belief.
I just don't get it
Somehow GWB with his armagedon obsession does
I found this quite amusing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4905411-103552,00.html
AnntHuDeShalit
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- Mar 5, 2008
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It is innocent until proven guilty for American citizens in civilian criminal cases. These aren't. They are not guaranteed the same protections. Since they are illegal combatants, they fall under different rules.
kisty
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It's not quite that simple, from a legal perspective. All that's needed is a competent military review to determine their status as Unlawful Combatants. Once they've been declared such, they can be held indefinately without trial. In fact, depending on the instance of their capture, it may be unlawful to try them. The question of guilt or innocence is irrelevant; international law allows for them to be held until the end of time.
All of this is pretty much moot since the Defense Dept. has extended full Geneva Convention protection status to the detainees.
All of this is pretty much moot since the Defense Dept. has extended full Geneva Convention protection status to the detainees.
I forgot I had promised to post evidence of discrimination inside of Israel.
Palestineans no longer gain citizenship or residency rights upon marrying an Israeli citizens...this applies to Palestineans only. The Israeli spouse is also barred by law from entering Palestineans controlled areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Ariel Sharon on this subject-“The Jews have one small country, Israel, and must do everything so that this state remains a Jewish state in the future as well. There is no intention of hurting anyone here; there’s merely a correct and important intention of Israel being a Jewish state with a massive Jewish majority. That’s what needs to be done, and that’s exactly what we’re doing. This is considered normal everywhere.”
Seems an awful lot like the desire to have an Aryan State.
Not to mention the Law of Return- Which allows any Jew(defined as anyone with a Jewish grandparent to immediately become a citizen and gain those rights.... This is a clear discrimination based upon race, what if the U.S stated that any White could automatically gain citizenship?
There is also a clear distinction between Jewish and Arab systems economically, a much larger percentage of Jews are employed, and those Arabs who do work are paid only 70% of their Jewish counterparts.
Human Rights Watch issued a report in 2001, which stated: "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system. It found that the Education Ministry did not allocate as much money per Palestinian Arab child as it did for Jewish children. The classes were 20 percent larger on average.
According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied territories, the Israeli government "did little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens."[16]
Examples of what the State Department report found include the following:
* According to the report, Muslims enjoy full freedom of religion and government "did not affect the rights of Muslims to practice their faith" according to "Legislation enacted in 1961 afforded the Muslim courts exclusive jurisdiction to rule in matters of personal status concerning Muslims. Secular courts have primacy over questions of inheritance, but parties, by mutual agreement, may bring cases to religious courts. Muslims, since 2001, also have the right to bring matters such as alimony and property division associated with divorce cases to civil courts in family-status matters."
* "According to a 2003 Haifa University study, a tendency existed to impose heavier prison terms to Arab citizens than to Jewish citizens. Human rights advocates claimed that Arab citizens were more likely to be convicted of murder and to have been denied bail."
* "government spending on children was proportionally lower in predominantly Arab areas than in Jewish areas. ... According to the Government's February 2002 report to the U.N., government investment per Arab pupil was approximately 60 percent of investment per Jewish pupil. ... According to Human Rights Watch, during the year, the Government provided 1 teacher for every 16 Jewish primary school children compared to 1 teacher for every 19.7 Arab children."
* "The Orr Commission of Inquiry's report ... stated that the 'Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory,' that the Government 'did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner.' As a result, 'serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"
The Or Commission report also claims that activities by Islamic organizations such as the aforementioned society may be using religious pretenses to further political aims. The commission describes such actions as a factor in 'inflaming' the Muslim population in Israel against the authorities, and cites the al-Sarafand mosque episode, with Muslims' attempts to restore the mosque and Jewish attempts to stop them, as an example of the 'shifting of dynamics' of the relationship between Muslims and the Israeli authorities.[17]
* "In November, the Israeli-Arab advocacy NGO Sikkuy's annual report stated that 45 percent of Arab families were poor, in contrast to 15 percent of Jewish families, and that the rate of infant mortality in the Arab sector was 8 out of 1,000 births--twice that of the Jewish population."
* "According to a report by Mossawa, racist violence against Arab citizens has increased, and the Government has not done enough to prevent this problem. The annual report cited 17 acts of violence by Jewish citizens against Arab citizens. ... A Haifa University poll released in June revealed that over 63 percent of Jews believed that the Government should encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate."
* "Approximately 93 percent of land in the country was public domain, including that owned by the state and some 12.5 percent owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). All public land by law may only be leased, not sold. The JNF's statutes prohibit the sale or lease of land to non-Jews. In October, civil rights groups petitioned the High Court of Justice claiming that a bid announcement by the Israel Land Administration (ILA) involving JNF land was discriminatory in that it banned Arabs from bidding."
* "Israeli-Arab advocacy organizations have challenged the Government's policy of demolishing illegal buildings in the Arab sector, and claimed that the Government was more restrictive in issuing building permits in Arab communities than in Jewish communities, thereby not accommodating natural growth. In February, security forces demolished several homes allegedly built without authorization in the Arab village of Beineh."
* "In June, the Supreme Court ruled that omitting Arab towns from specific government social and economic plans is discriminatory. This judgment builds on previous assessments of disadvantages suffered by Arab Israelis."
* "Israeli-Arab organizations have challenged as discriminatory the 1996 "Master Plan for the Northern Areas of Israel," which listed as priority goals increasing the Galilee's Jewish population and blocking the territorial contiguity of Arab towns."
* "Israeli Arabs were underrepresented in the student bodies and faculties of most universities and in higher professional and business ranks. The Bureau of Statistics noted that the median number of school years for the Jewish population is 3 years more than for the Arab population. Well educated Arabs often were unable to find jobs commensurate with their level of education. According to Sikkuy, Arab citizens held approximately 60 to 70 of the country's 5,000 university faculty positions."
* "Israeli Arabs were not required to perform mandatory military service and, in practice, only a small percentage of Israeli Arabs served in the military. Those who did not serve in the army had less access than other citizens to social and economic benefits for which military service was a prerequisite or an advantage, such as housing, new-household subsidies, and employment, especially government or security-related industrial employment. Regarding the latter, for security reasons, Israeli Arabs generally were restricted from working in companies with defense contracts or in security-related fields. In December, the Ivri Committee on National Service issued official recommendations to the Government that Israel Arabs not be compelled to perform national or "civic" service, but be afforded an opportunity to perform such service".
*
In February 2006, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government education development plan discriminated against Israeli Arabs and mandated that the government should come up with a new plan within a year.
A poll commissioned by an Arab advocacy group, the Center for the Struggle against Racism, found that 63% of Jews believe Arabs are a security threat; 68% of Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab; 57% of Jews believe that Arab culture is similar to Israeli culture; and support for segregation between Jews and Arabs is higher among Jews of Middle Eastern origin than those of European origin. [24]
Mostly taken from Wiki.
As to DC's question as to what type of Aid I suggest Israeli Give Lebanon-
They should give humanitarian, military and anything else that would endear them to the Lebanese people while supporting and building up the anti-Syrian Lebanese government.
Palestineans no longer gain citizenship or residency rights upon marrying an Israeli citizens...this applies to Palestineans only. The Israeli spouse is also barred by law from entering Palestineans controlled areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Ariel Sharon on this subject-“The Jews have one small country, Israel, and must do everything so that this state remains a Jewish state in the future as well. There is no intention of hurting anyone here; there’s merely a correct and important intention of Israel being a Jewish state with a massive Jewish majority. That’s what needs to be done, and that’s exactly what we’re doing. This is considered normal everywhere.”
Seems an awful lot like the desire to have an Aryan State.
Not to mention the Law of Return- Which allows any Jew(defined as anyone with a Jewish grandparent to immediately become a citizen and gain those rights.... This is a clear discrimination based upon race, what if the U.S stated that any White could automatically gain citizenship?
There is also a clear distinction between Jewish and Arab systems economically, a much larger percentage of Jews are employed, and those Arabs who do work are paid only 70% of their Jewish counterparts.
Human Rights Watch issued a report in 2001, which stated: "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system. It found that the Education Ministry did not allocate as much money per Palestinian Arab child as it did for Jewish children. The classes were 20 percent larger on average.
According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied territories, the Israeli government "did little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens."[16]
Examples of what the State Department report found include the following:
* According to the report, Muslims enjoy full freedom of religion and government "did not affect the rights of Muslims to practice their faith" according to "Legislation enacted in 1961 afforded the Muslim courts exclusive jurisdiction to rule in matters of personal status concerning Muslims. Secular courts have primacy over questions of inheritance, but parties, by mutual agreement, may bring cases to religious courts. Muslims, since 2001, also have the right to bring matters such as alimony and property division associated with divorce cases to civil courts in family-status matters."
* "According to a 2003 Haifa University study, a tendency existed to impose heavier prison terms to Arab citizens than to Jewish citizens. Human rights advocates claimed that Arab citizens were more likely to be convicted of murder and to have been denied bail."
* "government spending on children was proportionally lower in predominantly Arab areas than in Jewish areas. ... According to the Government's February 2002 report to the U.N., government investment per Arab pupil was approximately 60 percent of investment per Jewish pupil. ... According to Human Rights Watch, during the year, the Government provided 1 teacher for every 16 Jewish primary school children compared to 1 teacher for every 19.7 Arab children."
* "The Orr Commission of Inquiry's report ... stated that the 'Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory,' that the Government 'did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner.' As a result, 'serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"
The Or Commission report also claims that activities by Islamic organizations such as the aforementioned society may be using religious pretenses to further political aims. The commission describes such actions as a factor in 'inflaming' the Muslim population in Israel against the authorities, and cites the al-Sarafand mosque episode, with Muslims' attempts to restore the mosque and Jewish attempts to stop them, as an example of the 'shifting of dynamics' of the relationship between Muslims and the Israeli authorities.[17]
* "In November, the Israeli-Arab advocacy NGO Sikkuy's annual report stated that 45 percent of Arab families were poor, in contrast to 15 percent of Jewish families, and that the rate of infant mortality in the Arab sector was 8 out of 1,000 births--twice that of the Jewish population."
* "According to a report by Mossawa, racist violence against Arab citizens has increased, and the Government has not done enough to prevent this problem. The annual report cited 17 acts of violence by Jewish citizens against Arab citizens. ... A Haifa University poll released in June revealed that over 63 percent of Jews believed that the Government should encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate."
* "Approximately 93 percent of land in the country was public domain, including that owned by the state and some 12.5 percent owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). All public land by law may only be leased, not sold. The JNF's statutes prohibit the sale or lease of land to non-Jews. In October, civil rights groups petitioned the High Court of Justice claiming that a bid announcement by the Israel Land Administration (ILA) involving JNF land was discriminatory in that it banned Arabs from bidding."
* "Israeli-Arab advocacy organizations have challenged the Government's policy of demolishing illegal buildings in the Arab sector, and claimed that the Government was more restrictive in issuing building permits in Arab communities than in Jewish communities, thereby not accommodating natural growth. In February, security forces demolished several homes allegedly built without authorization in the Arab village of Beineh."
* "In June, the Supreme Court ruled that omitting Arab towns from specific government social and economic plans is discriminatory. This judgment builds on previous assessments of disadvantages suffered by Arab Israelis."
* "Israeli-Arab organizations have challenged as discriminatory the 1996 "Master Plan for the Northern Areas of Israel," which listed as priority goals increasing the Galilee's Jewish population and blocking the territorial contiguity of Arab towns."
* "Israeli Arabs were underrepresented in the student bodies and faculties of most universities and in higher professional and business ranks. The Bureau of Statistics noted that the median number of school years for the Jewish population is 3 years more than for the Arab population. Well educated Arabs often were unable to find jobs commensurate with their level of education. According to Sikkuy, Arab citizens held approximately 60 to 70 of the country's 5,000 university faculty positions."
* "Israeli Arabs were not required to perform mandatory military service and, in practice, only a small percentage of Israeli Arabs served in the military. Those who did not serve in the army had less access than other citizens to social and economic benefits for which military service was a prerequisite or an advantage, such as housing, new-household subsidies, and employment, especially government or security-related industrial employment. Regarding the latter, for security reasons, Israeli Arabs generally were restricted from working in companies with defense contracts or in security-related fields. In December, the Ivri Committee on National Service issued official recommendations to the Government that Israel Arabs not be compelled to perform national or "civic" service, but be afforded an opportunity to perform such service".
*
In February 2006, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government education development plan discriminated against Israeli Arabs and mandated that the government should come up with a new plan within a year.
A poll commissioned by an Arab advocacy group, the Center for the Struggle against Racism, found that 63% of Jews believe Arabs are a security threat; 68% of Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab; 57% of Jews believe that Arab culture is similar to Israeli culture; and support for segregation between Jews and Arabs is higher among Jews of Middle Eastern origin than those of European origin. [24]
Mostly taken from Wiki.
As to DC's question as to what type of Aid I suggest Israeli Give Lebanon-
They should give humanitarian, military and anything else that would endear them to the Lebanese people while supporting and building up the anti-Syrian Lebanese government.
GirlaInterrupted
New member
- Feb 28, 2008
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So killing every member of Hezbollah, turning the area over to the Lebanese Army, and helping to rebuild the infrastructure would be acceptable to you? It sounds like a good idea to me.
I read all of the racist things about Israel, and without knowing that much about the country, am inclined to take yours and Gajah's word for it. However, I do know for a fact that the Arabs in Hezbollah and Hamas are every bit as racist/prejudiced/hateful etc, if not more so. More over, Hezbollah killed 283 Marines in 1983, not Israel. Hezbollah maintains ties to other Islamic extremist groups that have and want to continue killing Americans. Hamas and Palestinians were the ones in the streets dancing and singing in celebration of the 9/11 attacks, not Israel. Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood that wants to re-establish the Caliphate and then take on the world, conquering it for Islam. I'm not really keen on converting to Islam or having my head chopped off. Hezbollah in concert with Al Qaida blew up the barracks at Khobar towers, killing 19 Americans, one of which was a friend of mine; not Israel. I said it before: there comes a time when you have to choose which side you're on, and sometimes that means choosing between the lesser of two evils. In this case, I'm inclined to support the side that isn't trying to blow up me or my friends, all the more so because they are putting steel into the foreheads of the people who are trying. Make no mistake: Hezbollah and Hamas view Israel as just the local battlefield, not the only one. If and when they succeed in pushing Israel into the sea, you and I are next on their hit list, and the fact that you defended them on MAP isn't going to keep them from cutting your head off, if you give them half a chance.
I read all of the racist things about Israel, and without knowing that much about the country, am inclined to take yours and Gajah's word for it. However, I do know for a fact that the Arabs in Hezbollah and Hamas are every bit as racist/prejudiced/hateful etc, if not more so. More over, Hezbollah killed 283 Marines in 1983, not Israel. Hezbollah maintains ties to other Islamic extremist groups that have and want to continue killing Americans. Hamas and Palestinians were the ones in the streets dancing and singing in celebration of the 9/11 attacks, not Israel. Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood that wants to re-establish the Caliphate and then take on the world, conquering it for Islam. I'm not really keen on converting to Islam or having my head chopped off. Hezbollah in concert with Al Qaida blew up the barracks at Khobar towers, killing 19 Americans, one of which was a friend of mine; not Israel. I said it before: there comes a time when you have to choose which side you're on, and sometimes that means choosing between the lesser of two evils. In this case, I'm inclined to support the side that isn't trying to blow up me or my friends, all the more so because they are putting steel into the foreheads of the people who are trying. Make no mistake: Hezbollah and Hamas view Israel as just the local battlefield, not the only one. If and when they succeed in pushing Israel into the sea, you and I are next on their hit list, and the fact that you defended them on MAP isn't going to keep them from cutting your head off, if you give them half a chance.
I am not defending Hezbollah, nor have I ever....
I am simply saying that Israel is going about this incorrectly, are killing much more civilians than terrorists, destroying the entire infrastructure of a potential ally and driving recruits to side with Hezbollah.
I just do not think that their recent actions are going to have a positive outcome. Perhaps they will limit Hezbollahs capability short term, but in the long term I think they will have turned the Lebanese people/government against them.
I am simply saying that Israel is going about this incorrectly, are killing much more civilians than terrorists, destroying the entire infrastructure of a potential ally and driving recruits to side with Hezbollah.
I just do not think that their recent actions are going to have a positive outcome. Perhaps they will limit Hezbollahs capability short term, but in the long term I think they will have turned the Lebanese people/government against them.
SUPERTRAMP
New member
- Feb 18, 2008
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I don't think anyone is doubting there is Hezbollah support in Lebanon, however I wonder how many of the civilians killed were actually involved with hezbollah. Certainly not the children! How about the half a miilion people who have fled the area?
Surely wiping out the entire infrastructure of Southern Lebanon is entirely different to disarming Hezbolah?
It's more than obvious the Israeli Govt has been given the 'nod' from Washington. They certainly have a mutual agenda and an agreed timescale.
Guess what, Condaleeza Rice will eventually arrive in Jerusalem tomorrow and start ceasefire negotiations. This will take another week or two to finalise during which time Israel will continue it's atrocities.
It goes like this...
1. Syrian/Iranian led Hezbollah gives the go ahead for a provocative act towrds Israel.
2. US & Israel expected this at some point.
3. US & Israel have pre agreed a timescale and course of action. US will give Israel a 'free reign' to do as it wishes for around a month. US will stall any ceasefire negotiations during this time.
4. Condi turns up & negotiates ceasefire.
Couln't have planned it better myself
So what happens now?
Israel have had their pound of flesh, their revenge, but is it enough? Can they now try diplomacy?
It could go two ways.
International force will be deployed in lebanon anyway.
Hopefully Israel and Lebonan will have to open a dialogue. The Lebanese Govt will be given support and rescources to keep a lid on Hezbollah activity in Lebanon. Israel has a reduced threat from one of it's borders.
However, it will probably pan out like this. Israels indiscriminate and disproportionate attack causes a massive increase in Hezbollah support in Lebanon. Syria and Iran give the support & orders for Hezbollah to step up terrorist incursions into Israel (after things have cooled off).
Israell has an increased threat from this border.
And whatever happens.
Israels actions with US support will further outrage many Muslims worldwide. This in turn will lead to an increased recruitment for all radical and extremist groups.
This will lead to a greater risk of global terrorism for everyone .
Surely wiping out the entire infrastructure of Southern Lebanon is entirely different to disarming Hezbolah?
It's more than obvious the Israeli Govt has been given the 'nod' from Washington. They certainly have a mutual agenda and an agreed timescale.
Guess what, Condaleeza Rice will eventually arrive in Jerusalem tomorrow and start ceasefire negotiations. This will take another week or two to finalise during which time Israel will continue it's atrocities.
It goes like this...
1. Syrian/Iranian led Hezbollah gives the go ahead for a provocative act towrds Israel.
2. US & Israel expected this at some point.
3. US & Israel have pre agreed a timescale and course of action. US will give Israel a 'free reign' to do as it wishes for around a month. US will stall any ceasefire negotiations during this time.
4. Condi turns up & negotiates ceasefire.
Couln't have planned it better myself
So what happens now?
Israel have had their pound of flesh, their revenge, but is it enough? Can they now try diplomacy?
It could go two ways.
International force will be deployed in lebanon anyway.
Hopefully Israel and Lebonan will have to open a dialogue. The Lebanese Govt will be given support and rescources to keep a lid on Hezbollah activity in Lebanon. Israel has a reduced threat from one of it's borders.
However, it will probably pan out like this. Israels indiscriminate and disproportionate attack causes a massive increase in Hezbollah support in Lebanon. Syria and Iran give the support & orders for Hezbollah to step up terrorist incursions into Israel (after things have cooled off).
Israell has an increased threat from this border.
And whatever happens.
Israels actions with US support will further outrage many Muslims worldwide. This in turn will lead to an increased recruitment for all radical and extremist groups.
This will lead to a greater risk of global terrorism for everyone .
No not the children. But instead of being angry at Israel for killing children, you should be angry at Hezbollah for storing and firing rockets from places they know are surrounded by children, as well as at the adults and parents of those children who support and allow Hezbollah to operate next door putting their families at risk. What kind of people hide behind children to shoot at someone? If you were hiding behind a 6 year old little girl and shooting at my family, I'm sorry to say it, but that little girl isn't my concern as long as you continue to fire. If I have to punch rounds thru her to stop you from killing my family then that's what's going to happen, as tragic as it is.
The goal is not to disarm Hezbollah, at least it shouldn't be. The goal should be to kill every member of Hezbollah and burn every material possession belonging to Hezbollah. This is how victory is achieved.
That's quite a conspiracy theory. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm wondering if you think Elvis is still alive, too? (ok, I couldn't resist, but I seriously doubt this was planned for ahead of time. We didn't even have a plan for what to do with Iraq after we took the country; what makes you think they'd plan for this?)
See, no. Hoping that Lebanon will keep a lid on Hezbollah is just wrong and only invites future conflict. What we should be hoping for is the extermination of Hezbollah as all of it's members are nothing more than smoking corpses. That's the goal.
While you're right, Hezbollah's success does just as much as Israel's reprisals to encourage recruiting. If Israel had done nothing in response to Hezbollah's attacks, Hezbollah's recruiting would've skyrocketed anyway. Whenever a Muslim extremist group "humiliates" the west or Israel, that success is followed by a drastic boost in the number of Muslims trying to join such a group. The surest way to let a terrorist group grow is to do nothing. Obviously, fighting back encourages recruiting as well, but at least if you're killing off old members, you're cutting into the overall net gain of the group.
The goal is not to disarm Hezbollah, at least it shouldn't be. The goal should be to kill every member of Hezbollah and burn every material possession belonging to Hezbollah. This is how victory is achieved.
That's quite a conspiracy theory. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm wondering if you think Elvis is still alive, too? (ok, I couldn't resist, but I seriously doubt this was planned for ahead of time. We didn't even have a plan for what to do with Iraq after we took the country; what makes you think they'd plan for this?)
See, no. Hoping that Lebanon will keep a lid on Hezbollah is just wrong and only invites future conflict. What we should be hoping for is the extermination of Hezbollah as all of it's members are nothing more than smoking corpses. That's the goal.
While you're right, Hezbollah's success does just as much as Israel's reprisals to encourage recruiting. If Israel had done nothing in response to Hezbollah's attacks, Hezbollah's recruiting would've skyrocketed anyway. Whenever a Muslim extremist group "humiliates" the west or Israel, that success is followed by a drastic boost in the number of Muslims trying to join such a group. The surest way to let a terrorist group grow is to do nothing. Obviously, fighting back encourages recruiting as well, but at least if you're killing off old members, you're cutting into the overall net gain of the group.