Israel Blockades Lebanon

In other words, if it came down to rescuing 1 American or 500 foreign children, it would be treason to save the children....



That it is moronic.

The idea that you would save the life of 1 soldier above the lives of everyone else in the world is, stupid.



You never cease to amaze me with your zealotry and ignorance.
 
Your lawful obligation to place the life on 1 American above the rest of the planet?




I value American lives, however I am not such a moron that I refuse to value any other human.

If I have two options,

A. Save the life on 1 American

B. Save the life of a couple hundred million not Americans

I would choose B in a heartbeat, you would choose A.

I believe than every human life has value, and that 100 million humans have more value than a single America..




I have to read someone's biography to get the information regarding the ceasefire?

Was it some "super secret" ceasefire treaty that only Stormin' Norman knew about?
 
DC, it is not the existance of these plans, but the content that worries me.

It is not a plan solely for defense of the Israeli area, it is a plan to sytematically divide all of it's neighbouring states by exploiting ethnic differences.

It is plan to expand Israeli territory and occupy parts of neighbouring states and settle civilians in those aeas.

It is a plan to 'obliterate' Lebanese cities.


And to quote Israel Shahak
 
Justified from whose point of view?

Cuba has been an enemy of the USA since Castro came to power... the Soviets had 20,000 troops stationed there for god's sake.


Are you going to try to turn the entire history of the cold war into "Amerika is the aggressor"?
 
I think you'll find that Castro was initially very pro-USA, but that the US government decided that he was an enemy. They imposed sanctions and backed attempted coups, invasions and assassination attempts on him (358 to date, if memory serves me correctly.) They drove him into the arms of the USSR.

It is in some ways reminiscent of Vietnam. Towards the end of WWII, the CIA agents on the ground recommended supporting the Viet Minh as they were (a) the most active against the Japanese, (b) had the greatest popular support, and (c) were the most pro-USA. But because they needed French support in Europe, the US government backed a return of the colonial power (which initially required re-arming Japanese POW's to keep the Vietnamese in check.) To cut a long story short, they ended up getting whooped by the same bunch who the CIA had recomended they support thirty years previously!

It's a funny old game, Realpolitik.
 
Ok but I don't agree the Castro was "very pro-USA". The forced nationalization of foreign property in Cuba just sounds like theft to me, compensated or not.


In any case, the background of American anticommunist policy makes any piece-by-piece discussion of the Cold War rather difficult if you don't appreciate that the Soviet threat was very real, and the fact is that if not for America fighting the cold war we would all be a lot worse off.


Ask anyone who got caught behind the Iron Curtain (such as my mother, who grew up in Communist East Germany) and they'll agree.

The campaign may not have been perfect but as they say "hindsight is not wisdom".
 
You really are this ignorant, aren't you? Try reading more than just one article or book and you won't embarass yourself so often. The "humanitarian crisis" you refer to as "BS" was in fact, the Kurdish uprising against Saddam following the '91 Gulf War. You remember of course (well maybe; you're not so good with history) the Kurds were the people Saddam nerve gased during the 80's. After assisting Coalition forces thru intelligence and sabatoge, it was feared Saddam would launch reprisals against them similar to the 80's gas attacks. The NFZ's were intended to prevent Saddam from using his air force against his own people, thus hoping to prevent a humanitarian crisis. It didn't work so well because the NFZ referred only to fixed wing aircraft which allowed Saddam to use Helo's against the Kurds when they did rebel. That's why we had Provide Comfort in the mid 90's.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember these things and it's usually safe to assume the liberal dominated educational system has failed you; however, as an adult you should really be responsible to get yourself knowledgable about the things you're going to run your mouth in public about. If you'd like, I can provide you a recommended reading list to fill in the obvious gaps in your education.
 
You're close. Castro was very pro-US and we were very pro-Castro. Right up to the point where Castro once in power courtesy US support, declared himself a communist and nationalized industries in Cuba in order to line his pockets. This double cross was what he had in mind all along, knowing he could never steal all that capital without the US going crazy, he decided to go 'communist' so the Soviet's would replace the support he'd lose from the US. He's the original Kleptocrat.
 
Where to start?

Without the American presence on the Western Front of the ETO from 1944 onwards there's little doubt that the Soviet forces, in the event of a German collapse, would simply have kept rolling west across all the German occupied territory in Western Europe. For that alone everyone who lived in "Free" Europe during the Cold War should be incredibly grateful, that the entire mainland wasn't behind the Iron Curtain. For a microcosm of Stalin's intentions towards what remained of Europe read up on the Berlin Airlift.



The US and UK military presence in West German right up to the collapse of Soviet communism, combined with the US's nuclear deterrent, is what prevented further Soviet expansion westwards.

While not all the US's proxy wars with the USSR and China were as successful as their defense of Western Europe (e.g. Vietnam), some were successful in stopping the expansion of communism (Afghanistan, Korea)



If you doubt the Communist's expansionist aims, you're simply wrong.

If you have doubts that living under Communism is such a bad thing, you clearly take every freedom we have for granted and have little understanding of the real world.
 
Personally, I prefer communism over capitalism, or from what I experienced of it anyway.

I grew up behind the Iron Curtain, in Moscow to be precise. There is a world of difference between the way things are now and were then. Back in the day, the streets were safe, most people were not greedy, everyone was your "comrade" and would help with anything no matter what, ordinary folk were honest and righteous.. Nowadays, its a greed driven capitalist, disproportionate wealth pit, quite sickening, peoples morality has really dropped. All this for a free market, and $$$. No thanks. Sure there were problems, but these are minor compared to the problems capitalism brought. Anyway, I know communism does not work, men are too greedy for that, but I enjoyed the communism while it lasted.

The reason things were so bad in east Germany, was because that’s the way it was meant to be, its called punishment, for killing over 25 million Soviets during WWII.

Edit: I dont mean any disrespect to any Germans with the East Germany statement, I'm just stataing the Soviet position on the situation, from what I know of it.
 
Dude you were 10 years old when the Berlin Wall came down, I don't think you're really in a position to judge what living under Stalinism was like.
 
Yeah, for sure and I definitely did not live under Stalinism. But from my childhood memories things were all peachy, free education, free medical care, a strong sense of brotherhood/comradeship between all the nations that made up the USSR. Furthermore, I have spoken extensively to various elders, including my grandparents, about this stuff and they too share my opinion. Anyway, maybe I am wrong or delusional but my experience and that related to me by older generations sound better than what is going on now.

In my opinion in those days the people benefited much more from the government than they do now, sure maybe people were not rich, but they were not as corrupted and morally depraved as they are now, crime and poverty were not as rampant. I am pretty sure if you could look back at the state of affairs now and then, for the general population, you would agree with me. But hey, maybe its still just some sort of transition period.

In any case if I had to make one statement to suofftopicrize my opinion I would say that the quality of life for the majority of the populous was better under communism, then it has been so far under capitalism.
 
I appreciate you're just giving your opinion, but that doesn't really explain the border police in East Germany using wheelie mirrors to check we weren't smuggling people out under the car.

This was around 1985, I don't think you can really say that's still down to Soviet 'punishment' of the Germans alone.




I guess you could say it's fairly telling... The communist bloc needed a sealed border to stop people getting out.

America (and the West as a whole) needs a sealed border to stop people getting in.
 
Here are some more statements:

No food to sell in stores
Mile long lines when the food actually did arrive
Rationed electricity
Rationed water, i remember waking up at 6am to go to the water pipe and fil buckets to bathe with
KGB
Government tells you where you can go to school
Government tells you where you will work
Government tells you where you can live
Previleged classes (otherwise known as the members of the communist party)

the list goes on and on

I don't know where you got your rosey glasses, cause it sure as hell wasn't at the rosey glasses store, they've been out of those for months.

so you were an Azeri living in Moscow?
 
MaverickZ, this is the way I see it.

No food to sell in stores – Was not really a problem in Moscow or Baku, I only encountered this after USSR collapsed.

Mile long lines when the food actually did arrive – Not that long.

Rationed electricity – Not in Moscow or Azerbaijan.

Rationed water, i remember waking up at 6am to go to the water pipe and fil buckets to bathe with – Have not had that experience, but I did experience no hot water during summer on occasion, this was due to repairing pipes for the winter. No hot water during winter is deadly in Moscow, i.e. no heating.

KGB – Family member in the KGB so was not really a problem for me. But I did not hear any one who had problems with them. Though I figure anyone who would have had problems with them would be for good reason.

Government tells you where you can go to school – Happens in quite a few democratic countries too, plus the schools were of very high standard

Government tells you where you will work – I don’t really see that as a problem.

Government tells you where you can live – And provides a free house for you.

Privileged classes (otherwise known as the members of the communist party) – Very small number and virtually invisible.

I’m half Azeri, half Russian, so I had both Baku and Moscow.

Where in the USSR did you live?






Yeah, maybe it just my experience and opinion. But, I also know quite a few people who share this opinion. I guess it works both ways.
 
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