Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I think that's an overstatement. Most of the owners I know have self-defense and home defense as a priority, particularly in rural areas. The sport shooters like myself are a small minority of gun owners, in my experience. And the Second Amendment is important to a LOT of gun owners, even those who aren't preparing for the fall of civilization. I don't have a pressing need for the government to not read my email (4th Amendment), but I still have strong feelings about it. The Second Amendment is the same for me.

Of coworkers and old school friends who I happen to know own guns, I think I'm the only one who goes to the range on a weekly basis.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

You know I have my eye on the Mosberg 464 don't you?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Didn't know that, but that's cool I don't know much about the 464. I know Mossberg's pump-action shotguns have a great reputation (maybe the best of the budget brands), but their over-unders are by all accounts godawful contraptions. I suspect the 464 is more like Mossberg's pumps, as it's made in the USA (like the pumps) instead of being a re-branded Turkish gun (like their over-unders).

I know for the most part bolt-action rifles have pushed lever actions out of the market, but I don't know the advantages of each setup? Mind giving a dumb shotgun guy who doesn't know the first thing about rifles the two-minute version?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

here is my yugoslavian underfolder....finally

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_89/68612_Pictures_of_my_Yugoslavian_Underfolder.html
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

And you need that why?
You joining the A-team?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Nice rifle. I bet it's a blast to shoot!
@PA that is one of the great things about living here PA, we don't need a reason to buy a gun. Wanting to own is enough.
Also, the A team used ruger mini 14s, another incredibly fun rifle to shoot.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

It would be just as easy to ask why you need to study karate, or why I need to fence. If it's interesting, fun, harmless, and legal, I think the real question is why not? And seems to me that taking a lever-action rifle to a range, or to the country to plink cans, or hunting, checks all those four boxes.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well I think one thing you and I have come to understand over the past few weeks is the massive gulf between us on how harmless we think widespread gun ownership is.
I don't think it quite qualifies as "harmless" does it?
At best widespread gun ownership might work out as a neutral outcome perhaps.
There'd need to be an awful lot of interesting and harmless fun going on to counteract all the murder and death.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The question, as I understood it in this last exchange (not the past 80 pages of back-and-forth) was why Hannibal felt he "needed" a Mossberg 464, not why the Canadian parliament should make it legal.

The fact is, it IS legal. Canada is not a disarmed society. Hannibal is living in Canada. I don't see how "wouldn't the world be better if guns were completely illegal" should factor into whether Hannibal should spend $500 on a rifle or on a Playstation 4. Hannibal's decision to buy a rifle instead of a PS4 is not going to change the overall legality of firearms in Canada.

And no, I don't think Hannibal is going to go shoot up a bunch of innocent people with it, any more than I'm going to go shoot up a bunch of innocent people with my BPS. So yeah, I think for Hannibal and I, as individuals (I'm one citizen, not Congress; he's one citizen, not Parliament), I think it's pretty indisputable that gun ownership is interesting, fun, harmless, and legal.*

* This assumes that you don't think I'm a cannibal, or that Hannibal's profile picture is a self-portrait.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well things got a little heated a while back when I basically said you were just a normal person and that normal people shoot other people all the time. So maybe I shouldn't go down that route?
But that's why I think guns should be very tightly controlled.
I don't know you.
I don't know Hannibal.
None of us REALLY knows what the others (or even ourselves to some degree) would do with a gun 1,2,5 or 10 years from now.

We come at it gun control from different ends.

I assume people are on the whole stupid, emotional, prone to anger and losing control and so shouldn't have easy access to firearms that multiply their ability to act on those impulses.
So the default is "doesn't own a gun unless they jump through some serious hoops".

You think (if I read you correctly) that people are basically OK and should have the right to own firearms, of pretty much any type, (after some basic checks) unless they demonstrate that they really shouldn't (through being criminals, felons etc).

We both think guns should be controlled.
We just start from a different default position.
We both think our position will lead to less death overall (I think).
You through the application of armed self defence.
Me through the application of denying normal every day people access to death dealing weapons.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Hannibal is a law enforcement officer...how many more hoops do you want him to jump through before buying a simple ol' lever-action rifle for personal use?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Or whether it might be sold in a private sale without any paperwork, background checks or so on. People are very, very good at pretending - we're evolved for it.



I don't think there's any sane, rational person who argues that more guns leads to less death (except possibly those who are incapable of understanding statistics, such as the ones who claim England has more deaths due to guns than America - presumably because their skills in number-crunching are somewhat lacking).

However that doesn't mean extra gun control will make any difference in America. Ownership is already high enough that I really do think it's a hopeless situation to try and correct. There just isn't a way to bring guns under control - not without a rather long and unpleasant fight.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I think his point is more that others should be jumping through similar hoops, not necessarily that Hannibal needs more added.

Then again I don't know whether being a law enforcement officer necessarily makes someone a responsible gun owner. Hannibal obviously is, but whether he's typical or not is another matter.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

You are conflating two different points by talking about one individual.

Point 1: People shouldn't have a gun unless they've had multiple checks, training, licencing, ongoing registration, etc etc.

Point 2: We don't know, really, before the fact, if any one person will up and shoot someone else (because of anger, mental issues, descent into criminality, accident, etc). Not me, not you and not Hannibal (even though as a trained LEO he would more than likely pass any checks and training I might specify would be needed in my gun owning world).
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

If I tell you "I'm thinking about having children," do you say "no, don't do that, nobody REALLY knows what they might do 1, 2, 5, or 10 years from now, and you might turn abusive and drown them in the bathtub"? Would you quote statistics that 600,000+ children in the USA are abused and that child abuse kills 1 out of every 50,000 children in the USA? Would you tell someone, absent any information that that person is unstable, that they should submit to regular mental health examinations to make sure that they won't snap and kill their child?

Of course you wouldn't. That's not how people talk to each other in any other context whatsoever.

If your default when interacting with other people on a forum is to trust them to be a responsible parent of a child, at least absent any evidence he won't be, why isn't the same true when we're talking about ownership of a simple mechanical device?



We WERE talking about one individual. Hannibal was telling me about the rifle he was going to buy, I was talking with him about his potential new rifle, and you jumped in and asked him why he thought he needed it, if he was going to join the A-Team.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Actually a few basic level checks wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea.

Also children, while destructive, aren't specifically designed to kill people.



My default is to trust people with a lock and key (simple mechanical device), or a bike (also simple mechanical device). Not so sure about cars (potentially lethal mechanical device) - if they hold a license then my natural assumption would be that they can drive, but there's the possibility they're a bad driver with points on their license.

Mechanical devices are not created equally. Trying to change a point of view by calling a gun a simple mechanical device rather than admitting it's a weapon isn't going to work, it's just an attempt to redefine the issue in your own terms.



To be fair it was a thought that came to me as well. In the same way that I wonder why people doing school runs 'need' SUVs with bullbars.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Erm...I was commenting on stormbringerr posting up pictures of his AK47 type gun.
The post above mine asking why he (stormbringerr) needs such a gun.
You can't carry it round the streets for personal SD.
It'd probably shoot through walls so would be poor/dangerous to your family if used for home defence.
It's not going to be as accurate as a true hunting rifle.
There's no real sporting format it can be used (although I'm sure there's some American league of AK47 shooters or something).
So I'm not sure how it fits in to your "accepted" uses for a normal gun owner.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

That's weird; when I saw your post, stormbringerr's post was something along the lines of "posting error, disregard" or something. So your comment appeared to be in response to Hannibal talking about getting a Mossberg 464, which frankly, was a very head-scratching situation if you are familiar with the Mossberg 464:



It's more "Lone Ranger" than "A-Team." But when I saw your comment, there was no other comment that it could be in response to. Now that stormbringerr's post is edited and has a link to an AK-47 variant, your tone and the comment makes more sense (I'm not saying I agree with you that he needs to justify a reason for owning it, but I understand your tone given your overall views on gun control).



Modern sporting rifles are an integral part of 3-Gun, though most competitors prefer the AR-15 due to its superior accuracy and lesser recoil.

Team Benelli 3-Gun - YouTube
 
This comes down to a difference in cultures. Most of you across the pond are not going to get it and we have no idea why you would let your government take your guns and you have no idea why we wouldn’t.

To the majority here the 2nd amendment and gun ownership is no less important than the 1st and freedom of speech.

For the most part we are never going to agree on this so it comes down to “your hose your rules and our house our rules”.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

i need it just in case,but even more than that i have a right to own it.
 
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