Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

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CC

Member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

A fair point , and one I suspect would have much more impact than the people with guns.



True , but the Libyan or Syrian militaries hardly compare to the US do they ?



I don't believe it is black and white , I just don't think claiming that Americans need guns to keep the government in check is very realistic.
 
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iluvhiim

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I don't either really. Just discussing points for the sake of it, myself. My whole basis for being pro-gun is the idea that while people are still killing eachother fairly regularly, I want to be able to be relatively well-armed. That, and it's an skill same as martial arts. Whether we need it or not, I feel people should not be stopped from practicing.
Of course, I'd be all for closing gun-show loopholes and adding psych evaluations to carry license programs as well as periodic checkups on the status of registered weapons and their owners. But that costs money that has to come from somewhere.
 
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ss141995

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

That's how our whole country got formed in the first place. The Powder Alarm and attempts by British soldiers to control colonial Americans' access to firearms and gunpowder were key driving points in the American Revolution. Though it may sound silly to you, it's part of what the US is. Yes we do need to work on our current laws but firearm ownership has been a part of America for a long, long time.
 
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Anniesgran

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Of course a huge part of why the guerilla tactics worked for us is because shipping and supplying fighters across the atlantic was a logistical nightmare. All we really had to do was survive to make such a situation untenable for the British at the time.

A revolution today would likely be much more like the chechen example. A smoldering war where the revolutionaries don't intend or expect to win in the forseeable future, just to survive, stay operational, and do regular harm to the opposition. And it's important to note that no matter how noble the ostensible goal may be, that's a breeding ground for atrocities.
 
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Bumumble

Member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Some polls on what Americans think after Sandy Creek:





Source: http://www.guns.com/2012/12/20/gun-polls-in-the-wake-of-the-newtown-tragedy-have-americans-changed-their-minds-on-gun-control/
 
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Mordred

Member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

No. You need to look at both polls and what they ask. There's no consensus on the firearms issue.

The first poll asked whether overall firearms ownership did more harm than good, and there's a sharp urban/rural split (keeping in mind that Democrats and African-Americans are disproportionately urban and Republicans are disproportionately rural).

The second poll asked what provisions would have stopped THIS particular tragedy without asking whether there are OTHER downsides or other policy concerns with making those changes. Banning legal semi-automatic firearms ownership may have prevented this particular tragedy, since the guns were stolen from a legal owner instead of purchased on the black market, but that measure could also lead to increased crime in rural areas where police response times are long and civilian gun ownership is an important crime deterrent.
 
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barclay431

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I think you are. You're focusing on the second question, ignoring some of the qualifiers in that second question (limiting the question to "mass shootings at schools" instead of crime as a whole), and completely ignoring the first question, where Americans as a whole are much more likely to believe that gun ownership does more to "protect people from crime" than "put people's safety at risk" (12-percentage-point split).
 
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chinese56

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

No , the first question is flawed , everyone feels safer with a gun , it's just human nature.
I focused on the the second survey , and from that , the only thing that seems to disagree with the non Americans on MAP is that there should be armed people in schools.
 
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Crazycookie

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Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The first question asks about gun ownership as a whole, not just gun ownership by the poll respondent. You're completely ignoring a Pew Research Center poll about American's feelings on civilian gun ownership as a whole. As such, you shouldn't be accusing others of "seeing the results [they] want to."
 
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ArthurG

New member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Are we looking at different polls ?
The first poll asks if gun ownership protects people from crime , if I was asked that question I would answer yes , because I would feel safer owning a gun , as I said it's a skewed question.
 
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GingerGirl

Member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The question is "does gun ownership do more to protect people from crime or put people's safety at risk?" Nothing about that question is about YOUR gun ownership specifically. Just gun ownership in general. Someone who believes that civilian gun ownership is a net loss in society would answer the latter, even though nobody is saying that they themselves would commit a crime if they had a gun. It's not a skewed question. It's just a general question about gun ownership generally whereas the second question is about "mass shootings at schools" specifically--a very specific type of high-profile, low-frequency crime.
 
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LuisM

Member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Honestly mate , I think we're looking at this very differently , the first question is clearly

does gun ownership do more to

A/ Protect people from crime

or

B/ put peoples safety at risk

As I said I would answer A because I would feel safer with a gun.
It does nothing to address the wider implications of gun ownership.
 
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88droid

New member
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I still don't see how you get from that question that they're only asking about gun ownership by you specifically as opposed to gun ownership by everyone. That's simply not what I think the question is asking. We're deadlocked on that then.
 
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