Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

[bruce0767]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

And?
What's wrong with that if the disease is incurable?
That's exactly what you should be doing!

People with incurable diseases are given treatment that lessens the effect of that disease on their quality of life.
If you can't cure it then at least try to improve where you can.

(Bear in mind I'm arguing for the sake of it now....a gun ban is pretty much un-doable in America at this point...I just think America would be better off now if they banned guns many years ago before it became saturated with them and their ownership so ingrained in the culture)

 

[THEWARLUX]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

That's exactly what everyone who routinely practices martial arts says, right? It's okay for me to refine my choking technique and learn to hit other human beings really hard with my fists and knees because I'm not the problem, everyone else is.

This is not some unique idea that gun owners have. It's the basic principle of self-defense. You learn to do bad stuff, with the intent of only doing to bad people to prevent them from doing bad things to good people. Whether it's learning to choke out a rapist with BJJ, learning stick fighting in Kali so you can mess up a mugger with a piece of rebar, or whether it's learning practical handgun skills to protect against an estranged ex-husband...it's all the same concept of using violence as self-defense.

 

[b3c3b]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Not exactly no. You can't ban or control the ownership of fists and knees. You can't ban the knowledge that closing off the blood and/or air supply to the brain will kill someone.
If people were training in martial arts and then killing children and other people in the same numbers that people are shot in America I'd put up my hands and say..."you know what...I don't think people can be trusted with this martial arts lark".
Using a gun is not like using martial arts because using a gun is easy.
Pick it up, point it in the general direction and pull the trigger.



You keep saying "estranged ex-husband" as if that's the main problem in domestic violence. The main problem is the "not estranged current-husband" right there in the house with the woman.
Sure having a gun in the house may help a woman at risk from an estranged ex-husband.
At that point he's essentially no different to a home invader.
But having a gun in the house, IMHO, increases the risk to a woman who is currently living with an abusive husband.
Which is how most spousal abuse and murder happens isn't it?

I get you really want to hold onto your gun Mitlov.
And that's fine...I just think the flip side of that is that you have to accept that people just like you will shoot up schools, kill their wives, shoot themselves.
Bear in mind I'm not saying YOU will do those things. But people like you. Gun owners that think they have a right to own a gun and will be responsible about owning them but actually turn out to be just as messed up (on average) as everyone else.

 

[maxyfart]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Anyone got the stats for people being shot with their own firearm? Not accidental discharge, but others deliberately using it against them.

 

[TheRealMrseNickJonase]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well, I could only watch about 2 minutes of that video, time constraints, but I think they said "gun violence" about three times. This is what I mean when I say there is this prescriptive approach to the issue. How about we deal with the "violence" in general. Next is the term "assault weapons ban" what the hell is an assault weapon, if I hit someone with a hammer or a baseball bat then I have assaulted them, so therefore a hammer is/can be an assault weapon. All firearms are assault weapons, if you can't ban them all you shouldn't ban any, within reason, which means heavy artillery, fully automatic weapons, and explosives, all of which are already banned (in most cases).

 

[Lis]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Oh come on, you're not really playing the 'any weapon that could be used to assault someone is an assault weapon' position are you? You're smarter than that, man.

 

[mamaof2]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

And this is the crux of the problem. What is "within reason"?

Automatic weapons, semi-automatic weapons, high capacity magazines, easily concealable guns and so on. What is realistically needed for sport, self defense or hunting?

 

[Cliff]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

These are the sorts of things that don't get said in face-to-face discussions because they're so ridiculously offensive and liable to provoke a fistfight. And no, saying "I didn't mean you specifically" doesn't make it any less offensive.

You know what? You are male. PEOPLE LIKE YOU RAPE WOMEN. PEOPLE LIKE YOU KIDNAP LITTLE GIRLS AND ASSAULT THEM. That's the equivalent of what you're doing. Do you go up to Muslims and say "people like you fly planes into buildings?" I hope you don't. Do you routinely tell your martial arts instructors "people like you exploit your position of power to molest children...now I'm not saying YOU will, but PEOPLE LIKE YOU do." At that point the "people like you" is a meaningless throat-clearing kind like telling someone "in all due respect..." before slandering their mother. We all know exactly what you're saying.

It's offensive. I give up.

 

[MCAeNeSe]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well I didn't think it warranted that reaction.
Didn't strike me as particularly offensive either.
I think if said in person it wouldn't provoke a fistfight because you would have got my tone I think. I thought we were doing alright.

I know you said you give up but in what way aren't you just a normal bloke Mitlov?
I'm quite happy to be a normal bloke.
Why are you special and not prone to things like mental breakdowns, having accidents, making mistakes, stress, anger and just plain old reaching the end of your tether?
I'm prone to those things.
I don't think I'd shoot someone if I had a gun any more than you do but there are plenty of people that "seem" identical to me and you that would (and do).
And until they do those things the difference is not something you can really quantify or legislate I feel.

Sadly you make a good point. There is a significant percentage of (seemingly) normal blokes that do rape women and abuse children. It's a very nasty part of human nature.
Therefore we need sanctions in place (CRB checks for example, background checks) that attempt to mitigate that risk as best we can.
Male police officers aren't allowed to strip search female prisoners (IIRC).
Is that because they are all sex criminals? No.
It's because you can't tell the bad ones from the good ones.
So you err on the side of caution and treat all of them the same.
I'm suggesting that avoiding widespread gun ownership is a sanction that could serve a similar role.

If I went for a role or position with some sort of control over children I'd expect some scrutiny as to whether I had ulterior motives.
That's a sad byproduct of our world really. Abusers put themselves in those sorts of positions.
Just because I know what I'm like I wouldn't expect other people to take my word for it.
I wouldn't take another blokes word for it and would want him to have the same scrutiny.

 

[BruceT]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

With faux outrage like that, you have a future as a Fox News commentator.

 

[erikkka]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

It's become evident that there are enough martial arts instructors that do use their position to abuse kids that I'd certainly take precautions when choosing which club my child went to and what access the instructor had to her.
And if the instructor asked me why I wanted to see his CRB check and why I wouldn't let my daughter go on a weekend course or trip to a tournament with him I'd damn well tell him it's because some martial arts instructors have been caught abusing kids and I'm being careful about what situations my daughter gets into.
And I wouldn't expect him to get all angry about it.
I'd expect him to look at it from a wider perspective, see my point of view and see that, although it was directed towards him in this case it's not directed at him specifically.

And if I was discussing the treatment of kids with my martial arts instructor (as we are discussing gun regulation and the effects of widespread gun ownership) I'd absolutely tell him exactly what I've said above and why I think it.

 

[Nihil777]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

It really is worth watching. Phillip DeFranco even brings up "natural disaster" type self defense and the need for assault rifle to which Mr. Biden responds in a way pretty much saying, "Dude, a shotgun is WAY better in that kind of situation, and I own two."

To be honest, when I read up on the gun issue debate from far left or far right websites I feel like you can't help but think you're in the end of times. Then I watch the things the President and Vice President say and what is trying to be done (so far) and I feel like the far left and far right sides are just living in a totally different world. I'm getting pretty tired of my Facebook page which is what I'm really getting to. Between the "born in the backwoods" and "I'm so educated and intelligent" personalities of my "friends" list and their constant posts about the subject, I'm just so disgusted with the lack of focusing on what is really going on and the intense focus for the extremes of each side of the debate.

 

[Kissmyax]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

When I was working with teenagers, I was required to undergo an enhanced criminal background check. These checks include any suspicions that any police force may have recorded, not just convictions.

At no point did I feel that I was being accused of being a paedophile or abuser. I felt it was perfectly justified, because PEOPLE LIKE ME (ie. those seeking work with vulnerable people) have done, and continue to do, awful and unacceptable things to those in their care.

I really don't get the outrage

 

[jah]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I mean I just read the background of the Aurora shooter and aside from some ill-defined mental health issues (which may have just been some low level counselling of some sort, I don't know) nothing really sticks out to say "avoid giving this man a gun".
He was very well educated and intelligent with no prior convictions.
Being a bit "odd", socially awkward or introverted aren't a sufficient criteria in and off themselves.
The main warning sign would be buying multiple guns, lots of ammo and a bullet proof vest.
That would seem to point out that some sort of monitor or tracking on purchases of that sort would be in order at the very least?
But with some careful buying (spacing the purchases out over time, internet buying) even a check on the frequency of such purchases would be easily bypassed though?

 

[lowjoy]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

@HolyheadJCH

Yes, I really am PISSED OFF. Because for page after page, I have discussed a POLICY ISSUE with courtesy and respect for people who disagree with me. I disagree with you but I'm not going to attack you as a person for having a different position than me on a policy issue. And what have I gotten in response? I've been called STUPID (post 580 is just one example), DISINGENUOUS (post 595 is just one example), and in the context of these incessant personal attacks, I get up in the morning and read "people just like you will shoot up schools, kill their wives, shoot themselves" and see a bunch of people I respect liking the post. Of course I'm pissed off. Again and again and again I've had my integrity and character attacked in this thread, and I've repeatedly had people suggest that people like me are ticking time bombs, like somehow enjoying popping clay pigeons out of the sky makes me prone to KILLING CHILDREN. So don't frakking call me disingenuous. I'm furious.

@David Harrison and PA Smith--

But you're not just asking for background checks, are you? We've already got that and we've got near-universal support for closing the loopholes in the background check system. You're saying that society is better off if we criminalize firearms ownership REGARDLESS of the background check. That's not like telling a karate instructor "I'd like to see your background check before I drop my daughter off at your school." That's like saying "people like you prey on children, so GIVE UP KARATE OR WE'LL THROW YOU IN JAIL. And if you disagree and say you like doing kata, well, you're just defending child molestation."

 

[Cornelius]

Well yes I am, not that I don't understand what anti gun people mean by assault weapon, more to the point if you take away the "military type" weapon the problem is still that we have mentally disturb individuals who are going to continue to commit murder, they're just going to use a different weapon. Here is the problem, next it's going to be all handguns, then all long guns, then bow and arrow, then knives. After all of that then people are going to figure out other ways to kill. What happens when a nut job goes into an elementary school with a bomb strapped to himself?

 

[ujdrt]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Mitlov, I'm not saying that I think all firearms should be outlawed in the US.

That's up to US citizens.

But PASmith wasn't calling you a mass-murderer waiting to happen, and I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. He was making the case that you cannot always know in advance who will use their firearms for unlawful use, as I understood his post.

 

[Dancer_grl]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Wouldn't handguns and shotguns be more effective for close quarter mass killings than a semi-auto rifle?

 

[doveygirl_1989]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well ok, I won't speak for him.

I've read his posts as broadly saying "more civilised = less firearms". Hunting aside (as I feel that's more civilised than industrialised slaughter), I can see the merit of that viewpoint.

It's the cultural aspects that interest me. Especially the effect of socioeconomic iniquity on crime.

 

[ILOVEJOSHt]

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Didn't you already bow out of this debate? You really shouldn't cry wolf too many times.

Do you own a gun and if so why?