Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The police's motto varies by department, but it's most often "to protect and serve." He's not talking about mottos or mission statements; he's talking about tort liability. If you are the victim of crime, you do not have a civil cause of action (aka the right to sue) the police for failing to protect you. This is true no matter how clear and present the danger was, or how many times you called 911 and told them what was going on, and this is true no matter how easy it would be for the police to intervene.

Police still believe they have a duty to protect the public. But it's not a duty enforceable through civil suits. And IMO that's probably a good rule generally even though it can seem unfair in certain egregious cases. Otherwise, we would quickly bankrupt all of our police departments with "negligent failure to protect" civil lawsuits.

As for what people do, it depends. If someone's in your house or you yourself are being attacked, people most often protect themselves first and then call 911 second. If you're witnessing a crime occurring to another, they generally phone it in to 911 first and then (depending on the person and the circumstances) either choose to sit and wait for the police or choose to intervene themselves until the police arrive. This is the same whether we're talking about armed or unarmed self-defense. People's brains still work the same way, because self-defense is self-defense.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well the law suit culture in America is another thing that needs sorting out. Although I'm not completely lost on what oldshadow's point was now.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

So if we just sort out our meth epidemic, our gang problem, our geographic dispersal, change our fundamental tax structure, and completely restructure our legal system, the need for civilian self-defense will be obsolete? Cool, should have all that fixed in a jiffy now that you've identified the problems

Listen, I like cops. I respect the police. Most Americans do. But we also realize that they are like butter scraped over too much bread. And so Americans find different ways of supplementing their self-defense. A wealthy individual signing an expensive contract with private security? (After all, that's what an "alarm system" is when you get down to it). Self-defense. The twenty-two-year-old single woman who lives alone and gets a German Shepard to live with her so someone is watching her back at night? Self-defense. The thirty-year-old guy practicing weapon disarms in his krav maga class? Self-defense. The rural family with a Remington 870 shotgun and 1911 pistol? Self-defense. All four of these types of people generally like and respect law enforcement. They just don't believe that police can be everywhere all the time and so they supplement what law enforcement can do for them with what they can do for themselves: self-defense.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I didn't even suggest anything like that. But basically what you're saying is you'll find and take any excuse to avoid change? Well done.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

That's not remotely what I said. I've repeatedly proposed numerous changes in laws, policing, and social safety nets to help address crime. You're painting anyone who doesn't support a gun ban as "avoiding change," and that's a false dichotomy.

Assuming that a telephone to call 911 is all you ever need to protect yourself is like assuming that you don't need to train in grappling because a single well-executed head kick can win a fight. You've got no plan B.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

So you do then agree that policing could be better? In which case your last outburst makes no sense at all.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

NO offense but the UK has no voice in our countries right to bear arms, You just dont understand unless you grew up in america. Where kids learnt to shoot using their parents rifle at age 8 (and i was Cuban born).

ANyways lets all thank OBAMA for making the massacre and taking our rights like usual
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

It could be better than it is currently? Yes. Could it ever be good enough to be a sole line of defense against criminals in the USA? No.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

So you're advocating mob justice in the USA just so you can buy and own your own gun to go hunting? LOL
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The king of assumptions, grand generalizations, and misinterpretations due to heavy bias resides within this thread. Two steps forward, ten steps back.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Once again, that's not what I said. Self-defense is not mob justice, and I never thought I'd hear the two equated on a martial arts forum.

Are you capable of debating with someone who disagrees with you without resorting to condescension and rudeness? Because I honestly haven't seen any evidence of that in this thread.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Mitlov, I think you've given a good case in this thread, though personally it is the practical reasons rather than constitutional ones that hold weight for me. People who say "because it's in the constitution" sound the same as people who say "because it's in the bible" to me.

I would prefer a world without guns, but we have to work with what we've got. Even if all the firearms in the US were destroyed today, by tomorrow smuggling routes through Central America would be flooding them in by tomorrow I'm sure.

Aikiwolfie, you have ceased debating and are now just trying to insult Mitlov. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with that.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

You have to understand that being somewhat self-reliant is built into the US even from day one. This is reflected in our laws and the interruption of them.

I’m not calling out the British way of life and saying it's wrong but it is different from ours and even more so in the south in the country and smaller cities.

Most people believe that you should have the right of self-defense and somewhat the duty to help your fellow citizens when possible. This has faded in a few places but hold strong in other places. This is reflected in the supreme court decisions that the police have no duty to protect you they will do the best they can but some of the responsibly fall to you to protect yourself and your family and that’s the way it is in a country that sees freedom in the light we do here, well at least the majority do.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I always thought there was a difference between "tongue in cheek" rhetoric and actually believing what you're saying is valid and well thought out though?
 
Even if there was no violent crime whatsoever and thus no need for self-defense, I'd prefer a world with firearms. Think of it this way. If we lived in a world with no violent crime whatsoever, would you still want to see karate and taekwondo and judo and offtopic exist? I would. They have benefits besides street self-defense. Recreation, self-improvement through dedication, you name it. Shooting can offer the same.

Here's a five-minute bio video on Kim Rhode, the first Olympian in any sport to win individual medals at five consecutive Olympics. Talk about a test of hard work and dedication, particularly when she had to switch sports from trap to skeet partway through her Olympic career because they eliminated the event that she had previously medaled in:

Shooting for Gold • The Kim Rhode Story - YouTube

Here's a five-minute introduction to 3-Gun, arguably the most exciting of the shooting sports (very subjective) and certainly the most varied. What the junior shooter on the team talks about--the hard work, dedication, focus of balancing school with her passion--is exactly what a promising young karateka goes through:

Team Benelli 3-Gun - YouTube

And of course, there's the issue of wild game. Wild game is often the tastiest meat you can eat and it's certainly the most humane, particularly when compared to the lifestyle that most grocery-store meat comes from. And the hunt itself can be incredibly rewarding.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Though some similar attributes may be developed, I don't see shooting as directly equivalent to MA. I've not done a lot of shooting, but I can't see it having the same holistic body mastery involved. That's not to say MA are inherently better, I just don't see them as offering quite the same things. Hunting is probably more similar, but that doesn't have to involve guns.

I don't have a problem with sport shooting, and game management and responsible hunting for food are good things. I am against trophy hunting though.

This won't be popular around here, but I actually feel that offtopic is a rather barbaric form of entertainment. Not that I think it should be banned, it's just not for me.

But, having firearms locked up at a gun club, or at a professional gamekeeper's place of work, is a world away from allowing citizens to carry them around in the street. I would prefer a world where no-one felt the need to do that.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I also find trophy hunting distasteful. I don't see any reason to ban it unless a species' population is dropping, but I find it distasteful.

As for not needing a gun to hunt, there is no effective way to hunt birds without a shotgun...unless you're talking about hunting with snares, which IMO is inhumane. As for big game, an arrow wound is a far slower, more painful way to die than a large-caliber rifle hole if the hunter is off by an inch or so in his/her shot.

How are you supposed to go hunting if your weapons are all locked up at a gun club? I don't understand how you reconcile your support for wild-game hunting by private citizens with your opposition to private possession of firearms. The logistics of it don't make sense to me.

The only difference I see in terms of character-building between shooting sports and unarmed martial arts is the athletic aspect, generally lacking in shooting sports (winter biathlon and modern pentathlon being two notable exceptions). In terms of the mental game...you need to shoot a few rounds of trap or skeet to understand the total mental focus involved. We're talking Kyudo or Iaido levels of focus, just without traditional Japanese clothing. You have one round in your shotgun and you're going to try to hit a three-inch-disk flying at 40 mph at an unexpected angle 40 yards away from you...if you're not 100% committed, 100% focused, you're not going to be able to accomplish that. In order to compete seriously, you need to be successfully doing that 98-99% of the time.
 
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