Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

So if this gang member perpetrator didn't have a handgun, you think he would have just let the other kid live in peace instead of, say, stabbing him with a knife? I don't think that reflects the nature of gang violence.

One student seriously injuring or killing another student could have happened with ANY set of gun laws, including an out-and-out ban. The point was, an officer was there and saved the kid's life. Police in schools work.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Well why bother having laws at all. As for mental healthcare provision? Providing some would be a start. Make it part of a comprehensive healthcare system. That way maybe we can join up services. Spot problems before they become tragedies.



No. You make an effort to get knives off the streets as well and get kids out of the gang that's dragging them down. A lot of very successful work has been done in this area in the both the USA and the UK.

The fact that gangs might turn more to knives is not a reason to try and change gun culture in America and get the numbers of guns in circulation down. Police in schools are a sticking plaster on a problem that will get worse if it is not addressed. If the school is too hard a target, there are others to choose from. Like the Empire State Building for example.

You all keep crying about a police state. The irony is if this gun issue doesn't get sorted a police state is exactly what you'll end up with. Police in every public building and on every corner. Watching everything you do with broad sweeping powers of search and seizure and arrest.

Happy hunting.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

And when guns and knives are banned, what's next? Hammers?

Banning stuff isn't the answer. If we address two things effectively I guarentee a much bigger decrease in violence: Our mental health care system is a good start. And gang violence. Stop gangs from seemingly being the only solution for kids.

It's all been said before. Yet people are stuck on the guns.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Where did I say ban guns and knives? Stop deliberately over reacting and your country might actually get to have a grown up conversation about these issues.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I don't support some of what my government does and have never been quite about that.



It wasn't a matter of starting it and you can comment on what you believe is the right answer however don't get upset if we here dismiss it.



Free speech is more important then keeping from hurting someones feelings. We are not perfect with the free speech issues but I'll take what we have over the hate speech laws that so many other places have.

This is another example of how the US differs from other countries.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The restrictions you have suggested (much like I hear the UK is) all but bans gun ownership.

No thanks we will work it out other ways.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

If insulting people is your idea of a grown up conversation I'd rather not thanks.

But just for the sake of having areal conversation, do you mean away from criminals when you say off streets?

And please actually answer the question or just don't bother.

EDIT: There was no "deliberate over reacting." Your tone throughout this entire discussion led to that.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

The way this is worded I think you are speaking of something specific. Do you know it is iileagle for people in the US with history of mental health issues to even attempt to aquire a firearm? Or do you mean free/greater access to mental healthcare?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I love how mental health and gang violence are being treated like things we can just "fix" if we decide to, like changing the voting age. We're WORKING on doing what we can. We're far better off than we were twenty years ago on both fronts, particularly the gang front. And someone from a country with no significant history of street gangs really can't relate to how it's NOT something you just solve overnight. But it's going to take a lot more work until the problem is statistically insignificant.

And as for mental health, we're working on it. Obamacare is a huge step forward, but you don't just wave a magic wand and *poof* the problem disappears.

Until gangs don't exist, we need to do something to help protect citizens from gang violence like the recent school shooting. School resource officers, like the one who stopped the shooting, are a darned effective way of doing just that.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

And yet, mentally ill people can easily buy firearms in the US at the moment.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Which is definitely something that needs to change. But since the head of the NRA iscrazy, it's gonna be a battle.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I doubt Obamacare is is a step forward let alone a huge one, it's going to be a huge debacle as is any government program. Access to healthcare for the poor can help, but the problem is that the perpetrators of the mass shootings aren't poor people, these are college educated individuals, it take money to own a gun and buy ammunition, even on the street a gun is not cheep. The whole debate didn't start over a gang shooting, in fact your not going to get a big public outcry over a gang banger being shot. Only when an innocent bystander gets shot do you even hear about it on the national news.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Yes they can, but easy is a subjective word. Depends where in the US they live. In the US if you have ever been admited into a mental hospital you are prohibited from obtaining a gun. Period. If you have been charged with a felony crime or any crime of domestic violence it is the same, no legal guns! Do these people get guns anyway? Yes they sometimes do. Do they attempt to legaly purchase guns(which itself is a felony crime for them)? Yes they do. Are they commonly charged with the crime of atempting to purchase a firearm? No, these people are rarley charged. Which is rediculous. These are some of the things Americans are talking about when they say, enforce the laws we have. Do we need to get a grip on crimes commited with guns? Yes. The logical starting point to me is, enforce the rules we have. They are already law, so no debates needed!
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

You can't complain about unenforceable laws not being enforced. The NRA with their Republican lapdogs in congress have crippled the ATF's ability to investigate crooked dealers. They have and continue to obstruct efforts to close background check loopholes.

Once a mentally ill person has bought a gun through a legal process, what are the odds that the police ever find out about it except through the commission of a crime? In reality, I bet it's effectively 0.

Congress needs to close those loopholes and give the ATF the power to investigate gun dealers and prosecute people who are selling weapons to people they shouldn't. But unless the public puts genuine pressure on the Republican members of Congress, not even that will happen.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

Side note: Wayne LaPierre isn't the head of the NRA. He's not making the policies, he's just the PR guy. Why aren't people shining a light on the people who are actually responsible for forming such unfathomably stupid positions?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

What if you legally get a gun and THEN develop mental health issues?
Seeing as, seemingly, many American's get guns (or access to guns) as teens and before mental health issues might be manifest enough to be properly diagnosed?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I don't think you correctly understand how these checks work. If you buy a gun at a dealer or retailer, you fill out a little questionaire which includes your address, social security #, and sign it. The dealer calls it in(probly e mail now) and the check is done. If it is approved, you get the gun after any applicable waiting periods. So if you are a felon or have been in a mental institution and attempt to buy a gun legitimatly there is a paerwork trail(you don't throw that stuff away!) and your signature on the questionaire were you stated these proabitions do not apply to you. It would not be hard at all to follow up on the rejected background checks. If a sale was made to an unauthorised person, it would be simple to go look them up and arrest them for it. Even if they no longer had the gun! You would have a nice papertrail of them lying to purchase a firearm(a felony) and then actually purchasing it. Shouldn't be too hard to get a prosecution with that! The ATF has PLENTY of power to prosecute people and do so on a regular basis. Why the ATF or the individual states(I think most all states prohibit felons and crazies) do not prosecute these people is a big frustrating mystery to me!
Yes, of course the loopholes should be closed, but I think the number/size of loopholes is exagerated by those who just want guns gone.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I posted these remarks because of the statments by non Americans about how easy it is for criminals and mentaly unstable people legaly buy weapons in the US. I can see how you would get that idea from all the news latley. It isn't the case. In most states you cannot buy a rifle/shotgun untill 18 and no handguns till 21. I'm not saying we have a perfect sytem and I am totaly happy with it. We most certainly need some changes. I think since many good laws are already on the books, why not start enforcing them? I agree we need some additional controls(esp. background checks), but to say the current laws are not working is a little silly if you are not enforcing them! The truth is, no one knows if current laws would work because they largly have never been enforced! To me non enforcment of current law is the single biggest loophole, as well as the easiest to fix.
That is a good question PA. How does Britian handle the possibility of someone losing their marbles after getting a shotgun?
Are there any Canadians reading this? How does gun purchasing/ownership work up there, eh?
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

In certain states, such as Oregon, statutes allow law enforcement to bring an individual in for an involuntary mental health check where they have probable cause to believe that an individual is a danger to himself or others, even when no crime has been committed. In situations where an individual is a concern to others, if the police have probable cause to believe he may be a danger to himself or others, they can take the individual to a mental health provider and hold his firearms until after the doctor determines that the person is not a danger to himself or others.
 
Man arrested for 2x4 labeled "High Powered Rifle"

I think it was quite clear that I was talking about private sales, which make up 40% of gun sales in the US. There is no paperwork and therefore no paper trail. Any unauthorised person can easily go and buy a gun without fear of rejection or detection - that is a broken system if ever there was one.

But anyway, did you know that background check records have to be destroyed within 24 hours? So that magical paper trail you were talking about - illegal.

And did you know that gun dealers are not required to keep track of their inventory, so they can sell weapons illegally without ever having to worry about leaving a paper trail for that either.

And did you know that the falsification of records by gun dealers was downgraded to a misdemeanor?

All laws courtesy of the NRA's sycophants in Congress.

Did you know that the ATF are only allowed to inspect a gun dealer once a year. So even if they heard about irregularities at a dealership, they cant properly investigate if that dealership had been inspected in the last 12 months - but that's not likely to be the case, since the ATF only has the manpower to inspect dealers once every 17 years. There are only 2500 ATF agents policing over 100,000 gun dealers. That's the same number of agents that the agency had in 1972.

So you're right, the ATF does have plenty of power...in opposite land.
 
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