No need for me to say much only that i mostly agree with him.

B

bogeymonster2002

Member
I think you're extremely narrow minded and unable to see beyond your bias against it, automatically placing the assumptions that profiling = injust racism (which does occur) and because of that it's absolutely not useful at all. It's nowhere near the lines of torturing somebody as you are suggesting.
 
S

sweetshady

New member
Oh no, it's just generally bad practice. And I'm sorry, but you want to profile potential criminals based on their racial/religious origins? How is this not discrimination? What next, do we round up all the homosexuals?

Oh, and somebody who believes in racial profiling is daring to call anybody else narrow-minded? Irony can do no more for us- she died recently.
 
T

TraceyP

Member
Racial/religious profiling is part of it, yes. Those are major, undeniable parts of people's lives and they can be indicators. You're inability to acknowledge that because you believe you're some enlightened individual who knows some enlightened path of morality and failure to be able to wrap your mind around associating it with something useful, due to personal bias is causing your reaction. Yes, that would be narrow mindedness.

You keep associating me with saying "racial profile cause if they're a muslim they can't be anything but evil!" which is not what I'm saying at all.
 
X

xxryanxrossxx

New member
No, no- on the contrary, I fully acknowledge that I am extremely evil. I'm damned, though, if I'm going to let you get away with advocating racial profiling while claiming not to be a racist.

That's because I'm dealing not only with the explicit details of what you're saying but with the assumptions behind your statements- which you don't appear to be aware even exist.
 
P

pinksmurf870

New member
I'm struggling to understand what use there is in profiling someone based on their religion, 'race' or nationality, when any of those catagories do absolutely nothing to narrow down the likelihood/unlikelihood of a person being a suspect. Surely you need something which actually links them to the likelihood of being a possible terrorist or whatever?
 
M

MichelleQ

New member
Really? What an enlightened individual you are. Being able to willingly admit they're a horrible person but fully aware of everything.

Are you serious though? I mean really, can you not see the SUBJECT MATTER. This discussion isn't about profiling only, it's ABOUT profiling with the awareness of ethnicity and religious affiliation. Why would I focus on talking on other points when that IS the focus of the conversation? I'm entirely aware that if did not understand that religions/ethnic profiling isn't the only way to profile, and haven't acknowledged that sometimes it really isn't the most useful, then I would understand and agree with what you're saying. But I'm not and I do see what you're saying as an inability to understand what's actually going on in the discussion.
 
P

pogo730

New member
He's right, actually. He is capable of seeing this from an entirely pragmatic viewpoint from what he has written so far, and you're attaching morality to the issue inherently. This is why you're being so innately narrow-minded on the subject. In your mind profiling = the first step in genocide and so you're having this big emotional reaction to the concept. He is just stating that it's a single tool that can have a productive purpose and admits the potential for misuse is high.

Wow, then you go on to call him a racist for it. In academics, this is the lowest (and more exciting) form of debate you are displaying. He isn't the one degrading the conversation to poo flinging matches.
 
C

crazyjetsfan88

New member
So if one ethnic group primarily makes up a gang, lets say MS 13 (hispanic gang in the states, very violent), then you're telling me it is wrong for civilians and government officials to be a little more aware of hispanic people in areas in which this gang operates? It's not "he's hispanic, he's part of the gang." It's "the gang is made up primarily of hispanics, we'll be a little more mindful of them." Doing that while still remaining aware of other indicators that are not associated with ethnicity/religion which are applied to everyone would be a proper use of profiling.
 
U

umina101

New member
No, I'm perfectly aware of what is happening in this discussion- your claim that racial profiling is a serious tool for the serious business of finding criminals and terrorists betrays a tacit assumption that other races are more responsible for crimes and terrorist atrocities. Your sticking to the letter of what has been said is the same tactic that the BNP use to claim that they're not fascists.

So what? You're going to call the academic cops on me? Oops, they don't exist.
 
A

AlexisInfectious®

Active member
I got news for you guys in the UK over there, and it's that your police all practice profiling too. Ours do, yours, and pretty much the police in every country in the world. And nobody talks about it because of the reactions seen here but it can be effective and that's a major part of why it's so popular. When there is a known black gang affiliated meeting in town, and the police and security start profiling young black people because of it, that doesn't equal racism but rather one tool to attempt to stop violent crime. It's far from perfect, but it does produce results when exercised with some wisdom.
 
S

Strange

Member
No, not at all. The only thing you're doing is showing a lack of ability to understand what's being said, which I would assume is due to an extraordinary lack of actual experience in the subject coupled with the media's coverage of only the negative (abuses) side of such a technique. Nobody is denying that racial/religious profiling is abused by many people who are either ignorant and most probably racist or inadequately trained individuals (government) who may also be racist to top it off.

Regardless, it can still be a useful tool.
 
T

thebeast

New member
Based on many of the topics I've seen you post in these forums and the way you conduct yourself here, I think you'd go straight to academic jail without a trial, frankly. So no calling of the police, but keep it up and I'll report you for ToS violating, then maybe we can all go back to pretending we're adults on these forums for a second longer.
 
S

Star69

New member
Oh, I'm sorry and you have "experience in the subject", do you? So I'm assuming you're a policeman or a government employee of some sort?
If a tool has such obvious potential for abuse, that's an argument against using it, no?
 
P

papa

New member
I just got out of the military, have been to numerous countries, have been rioted against, fought off mobs, been exposed very specifically to particular ethnicity and religious preference association, and have had to use profiling on many occasions and have had formal training in it. Yes, I would say I have at least a little experience in the subject matter which I think is safe to say is beyond your own.

Yes, if there is potential for abuse there is an argument against using it. That can be said of so many things that the statement is rather irrelevant.
 
H

hfsrduiurfdlrejbvsfd

New member
I thought that this thread was more about human rights and living in a civil manner not realy about religion or race and the so called excuse but this is our culture doesn't cut it with me either, if people in these other countries want to live in a western society then they have to obey the rules and if they break them then they should be punished just like the rest of us, if they want to be part of the western world then they should earn the right to, that should be the end of it.

So here is a little human abuse for you to watch and think about.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/

Oh and I don't know if this applies in other western countries but in Australia young middle eastern girls can secretly register their names so if their family try and take them out of the country to marry them of to some old man back in their country of origin they will be stopped, but then the girl must be taken away and go into hiding never seeing their family ever again for fear of being killed by them for dishonoring them.
 
A

AlexisInfectious®

Active member
You know I agree that western society is better, superior, more humane and you're one lucky sob to be born in a place that has such a way of life. That said, we did a lot of our success off the backs of others. If we are going to achieve world peace, be able to get along with each other, and appreciate everyone for being human beings than we need to realize that and stop trying to "westernize" things. There needs to be a general standard, a human standard that works across the board and it needs to acknowledge that atrocities committed by western society are just as bad and are very much on the same level or worse of atrocities committed by others against their own people or towards others.

As far as the video goes, I think it does little to prove your point. Forgive my comments because I have only watched about 3/4 of the video, but the story of the abused girl in the begining is not at all unique to that area of the world. The only thing that was possibly different was the enabling of it to happen longer due to the social standard towards woman, but that is not a defining factor for it having happened for as long as it did. The USA has plenty of stories that are just the same, that have gone on just as long as that girl. I don't mean to sound callaused towards her predicament, but that's the reality of it. That doesn't speak for the Afghan people.

Also, the comments about women treating other women badly because that's all they know and what the men do to them: just a more extreme version of problems western countries have as well. It really is no different in principal, it's just more extreme and not regulated, nor is there an apparant organization to counter such treatment. That video showed me nothing at all to base any opinion on middle eastern countries being any different than anyone else other then they are a little behind the times in being proactve in stopping that kind of treatment (which is a pretty big dea). Everything is just more extreme there then what we who can use the internet to post on a forum generally experience. They aren't really that much different.

As far as that program you guys have in AUS, I think that's awesome. Is it only for citizens or does it apply for anyone in that sort of situation?
 
I

icecold

Member
I think it applies to anyone and here is another vid that i think you will agree as seems to me that the problems will never be solved, at least thats the way it came across to me.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/02/16/3432592.htm
 
C

carlitocool

New member
I'm not saying that it's 'wrong' as in morally wrong, it just seems a bit useless as far as I can see. (Bearing in mind that I'm a layman with no first hand experience of profiling in use, so I was hoping that you'd be able to explain it to me a bit better.)

Let's imagine we were in Afghanistan. We want to pick out a potential suicide bomber before he can strike. Profiling on religious grounds seems pointless in a country which is about 99% Muslim. Profiling on ethnic grounds might narrow things down a little bit, if you could safely assume that the suspect was (say) Pashtun. But you don't seem a lot further forward unless you have actual intelligence to narrow down the search.

Or to take your example of the Hispanic gang, how helpful is it really to be looking out for young Hispanic males in (say) east Los Angeles? What percentage of them would actually be gang members? (I've no idea.) Again, I just can't see that you are any further forward using progiles as general as religion or ethnicity. Surely there must be more useful measures than that. Or is there just lot's of other stuff you haven't told us about?
 
Top