Poll: Belief in pseudoscience/paranormal phenomena

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IH8THEEVILEMPIRE

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I posted a thread for the show “Enemies of Reason” which is about the pseudoscience, supernatural, paranormal, etc. (http://www.ihav.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70902)

So who believes in this stuff?

Astrology
Psychics
ESP (telepathy, clairvoyance)
CAM (Complementary/Alternative Medicine)
Homeopathy
Faith Healing
Chiropractic
Dowsing
Ghosts

Acupuncture
Crystal healing
Angels
Etc, etc.
 
I did do a little, until i watched it.

I no longer, its just a load of crock and bull.

I still cant help wishing it wasnt though..
 
i dunno if i believe in ESP i dont think like reading someones mind word for word or anything but i think that some animals have abilities like that on some level
 
All nonsense.

Just to quote Charlie Brookers review from the Guradian again:

Maybe you've put your faith in spiritual claptrap because our random, narrative-free universe terrifies you. But that's no solution. If you want comforting, suck your thumb. Buy a pillow. Don't make up a load of floaty blah about energy or destiny. This is the real world, stupid. We should be solving problems, not sticking our fingers in our ears and singing about fairies.

Mitch
 
I think I'll sig part of that quote, although I might be tempted to add 'have meaningless sexual encounters' into the list of acceptable things people should to to comfort themselves.
 
Isn't that accepting the random, narrative-free universe (not that you have to do that to accept it)?
 
I hate to rain on your little parade, but there is developing evidence that *some* complimentary/alternative therapies do work. Which is not to say that they all do. Do you're research.
 
Do you have any specifics? What alternative therapies are you referring to? Source of study, etc? Thanks.

Also note that if this is the case, and one is proven to be effective, then it will no longer be an alternative therapy, it will be proven medicine. By defintion, CAM are those which have not been proven.
 
Herbal Medicine is notoriously unregulated, but it hardly needs to be proven that ingesting some particular plant-based chemical can have an effect on the body, since every function of our body is based upon such effects.

But it's definitely 'alternative' because of the lack of regulation.
 
I suppose you could say that I "believe" in some of the alternative medicines - they do actually work. I've been surprised by Dit Da Jow, for example, in the healing of bruises. I'm not interested in using it for "conditioning," but the bruise stuff worked for me. I had a chiropractor do some work on a few bits of me a couple of years back and it did the trick too. As for the rest of it (and that's including chi/ qi/ ki), my stance is that
 
I am completely of the opinion that ghosts do not exist. Working in a 16th century house I get constant requests from paranormal investigators to come and investigate,I always turn them down.I have been there 4 years now,even stayed overnight there and have never seen/heard things.My staff on the other hand seem to see/hear things on a daily basis!

On the alternative therapy question I'm with Sever, I use dit da jow for bruises etc and may have to go see a chiropractor ,but the whole angels and healing thing seems somewhat silly.
 
Herbal therapies are starting to have some good evidence, but because there are so many different herbs with so many different claims, you have to take each one seperately and look for the evidence to support the claims. You also have to find brands whose manufacturing falls into line with FDA regulations, they are of course self policing. Nature Made is one of the brands that does well by this and there are a few others but I can never remember them since Nature Made is cheap and available locally. Aromatherapy also is beginning to develope some scientific background to it.

Acupuncture is beginning to have some evidence as well. It seems that the effects are better produced and longer lasting if used in conjunction with the herbals and it also depends upon the condition.

Massage is developing great evidence in its effect. While it does not directly cure anything, it reduces the amount of stress, increases bloodflow through vessal dilation and gets more oxygen to injuries.

There is plenty of evidence that Tai Chi and meditation reduce the number of illnesses contracted and produce measurable biofeedback results.

As for the sources, they are called peer reviewed journals, trade journals in nursing and coursework. If you want to learn, then do some research cause there is no way I can spoonfeed you everything. Most of the research is coming out of Europe, mainly Germany and the UK. The US has only just started looking into researching CAMs. And, by the way, they are called CAM/CATs because they are not based upon the Western Medical model, not because there is no research or because they are somehow intrinsically ineffective. Some are, it is true, more effective then others. However as a nurse, who am I to deny someone something like healing touch? I think its bunkam however it makes the patient feel better so if they want some weird waving their hands about, then that's fine with me.
 
Sorry I was very drunk when I made that post. I found a place that serves margaritas in a pint glass
 
Anyone interested in this sort of stuff should check out this podcast: http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive.asp

Here’s an episode on Alternative Medicine: http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast12-07-05.mp3

As for chiropractic, most of it is pseudoscience with only a small minority of scientific chiropractics:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2007-03-28.mp3



Well surely your claims are based on some specific studies. Which ones? I’m not the one making the claim, as such, I don’t need to do the work to prove your claims.
 
I believe in none of it.
Astrology...what a joke.
Yes, the stars are creating my future for me.
Lame.
 
Richard Dawkins is doing a program on it not the best person to choose in my opinion. I said ghosts because I realy liked that program with Michael Aspel 'This is your life' I think was the name.
 
And I told you where to start. You have taken a few obvious crap alternatives and used them to paint the entire catagory of CATs. Good job. I am not in the habit of spoon feeding knowledge aquired over the course of years as, frankly, I don't have the time.

If you want to know about it, do some research. Start with PubMed.
 
I have never had a problem putting my ideas out there so I can say I do practice Qigong, meditation and acupuncture.

All of which they are finding does have interesting effects on the body and numerous hormones that effect the body.

http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/ This is acupuncture done by MDs in the US. If acupuncture is truly such a sham then why are they starting to teach semester and year long courses in it and herbology to Western MDs???

Also here is an interesting tidbit from this article: http://www.emofree.com/Research/meridianexistence.htm

The existence of the meridian system was further established by French researcher Pierre de Vernejoul, who injected radioactive isotopes into the acupoints of humans and tracked their movement with a special gaofftopic imaging camera. The isotopes traveled thirty centimeters along acupuncture meridians within four to six minutes. Vernejoul then challenged his work by injecting isotopes into the blood vessels at random areas of the body rather than into acupoints. The isotopes did not travel in the same manner at all, further indicating that the meridians do indeed comprise a system of separate pathways within the body.

Also JAMA (Journal of American Medical Assoc.) just did an article on acupuncture's effectiveness to treat pain (more specifically knee pain).

As for herbs where do you think aspirin comes from? The bark of a willow tree, one of the herbs that herbalists have used for centuries to treat pain.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/aspirin.htm There is also current research going into Chinese medicine herbs b/c of their effectiveness to fight off specific cell formation during stages of cancer.
http://alternativehealing.org/bai_hua_she_she_cao.htm

For the most part herbal therapy is considered "alternative" b/c in the west we have yet to chemically take apart many of these herbs and find out exactly what it is that "makes them tick." These are just now being able to be studied and are of interest to many of the western drug companies.

I don't have the time to go into all the research being done on the others, but Qigong, Meditation are having measurable effects on brain function as well as hormone release. Some of these effects are producing "new states" of mind and hormone effects on the body that have not necessarily been seen before.
http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/News/Meditation_Alters_Brain_WSJ_11-04.htm

As wry posted just do a search. I will admit some of the others above are difficult b/c they have yet to be measured. But just b/c we cannot See it, hear, feel it, smell it, does not mean it does not exist, otherwise w/o microscopes we would be hard pressed to prove bacteria and viruses.
 
Wry's post lists lots of possibilities and starts, but nothing concrete.
As for this

Because they make a massive pile of cash out of new age numpties from such courses?


When I see an article that begins "Compiled from the internet..." my heart sinks...


Lets see it.


Yep, stuff that's been proven to work through proper scientific testing, like aspirin, works. No poop Sherlock. I think that just reinforces my point.



No, it isn't. Herbal therapy that has not been scientifically tested is viewed with suspicion ("Here, eat heartily of the St Tristram Wort Bean and the years of your life shall outnumber the stars of the sky"). Once you prove stuff works, it's not regarded with suspicion. Simple.


Everything form eating chocolate to getting punched in face does this. No surprise here.


Erm, microscopes allow us to see stuff, so knowing that it does exist.

I don't argue that herbs etc don't have an impact. Some funghi kill people, enough said.

I do say that promoting health benefits for anything from eating something to wearing turquoise with no evidence whatsoever doesn't make you spiritual or new age, it makes you a gullible halfwit.

Mitch
 
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