Shooting in Texas

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KtN

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Chris Kyle, whose book American Sniper i reviewed here, was shot and killed on a shooting range in Texas along with another man. The shooter is a fellow Iraq war vet who apparently suffers from PTSD. No word yet as to his motive.
This makes me sad because after reading his book i kinda felt like i know him.

Kyle was a Navy Seal sniper served four tours in Iraq where he was awarded two silver stars and set a record for confirmed kills with 160. RIP Mr Kyle. Thank you for your service.
 
From all accounts the shooter was a PTSD sufferer who Kyle was trying to help...by taking him to a shooting range.

Last time I checked, Chris Kyle was not a licensed counselor. He had no business trying to treat a PTSD sufferer, who presumably had gunfire as a trigger (otherwise, why the shooting range?).

PTSD is not a game. It sounds like Chris Kyle learned that the hard way.
 
RIP

We need to be doing more to make sure our veterans get the care they need. When their tour ends, society's duty to them is just beginning, and all too often these cases fall through the cracks.
 
Have some respect. The man was trying to help other veterans and was murdered.

He was not putting himself out as a licensed psychiatrist, and the particular vet at issue, to my knowledge, had not been diagnosed with any sort of formal condition. PTSD is speculation and hindsight at this point.

Why a shooting range? Target shooting is one of the most zen activities there is. Shutting out everything in the world except for that one single shot. This is not a new concept...it's also the cornerstone of kyudo. Whether you're putting an arrow through a bullseye, putting a 7.62mm round through a target a 250 meters, or breaking a clay with a twelve-gauge from the 27 yard line, target shooting is complete focus on one instant. It's calming, relaxing, and focusing.

Are you suggesting that veterans should not help other veterans with the day-to-day stresses of returning home after a tour of duty, just in case one of those individuals has crossed the line from "having a hard time with reintegration to civilian society" to "post-traumatic stress disorder"?

Chris Kyle was a hero both for what he did during his tours of duty and for trying to help other veterans with the stresses of reintegration to civilian society. One should not speak ill of someone like that, particularly right after their death.
 
With the information that is out there at the moment (which is from a credible source), Routh had PTSD and was struggling with it and Kyle was actively trying to help him with his PTSD. If future information comes out to refute that, I'll read it and adjust my view accordingly.

And the Kyudo analogy is ridiculous. If the guy had PTSD, a shooting range is going to be one of the least relaxing places on the planet. There are few noises more likely to trigger an episode in a vet than gunfire.

I read a lot about this story yesterday and try as hard as I could I can't feel sad about it. I just feel angry at the waste of it all. Two men are dead and another is going to jail for the rest of his life.

Were their intentions honourable? Absolutely. Were their actions smart? Clearly not.

Again, maybe more information will come to light regarding motive, but at the moment, all I see are a lot of ruined lives.
 
Gross generalizations and assumptions about PTSD . . . COMMENCE!

Just for your information though, one of the recommended things for veterans to do to help in treatment of PTSD in the states is to actually be around other veterans. I'm not even kidding you, it's as simple as that: "Go be around other people who have the same experiences, it helps tremendously to talk." Seems that's what Chris Kyle was doing to me? Crap happens though.
 
It is relevant because you stated that he didn't have such a qualification, and therefore was dangerously audacious for attempting to help, as if it was even remotely comparable to the experience he has gained from actually walking that path..
 
My point was that he was neither qualified nor experienced at determining how best to help a PTSD sufferer. I'm pretty putting a gun in their hands in an environment with a lot of gunfire isn't a recognised treatment.
 
But in what universe does putting a gun in the hand of someone you believe to be mentally ill (official diagnosis or not, it seems Kyle believed Routh had PTSD) qualify as a good idea?

It's a horrible event that was 100% avoidable. Saying 'crap happens' seems wholly inadequate.
 
I think you misunderstand the entire purpose of the education system.

Education in a theoretical setting is designed to convey concepts that are garnered from experience. A successful education accredited by a school or body does not mean that the person is actually capable of performing the concepts contained, it is their best test.

Of course there is value in transferring information, but until it is actually proven then it is worthless. That is why a graduate gets a lot lower salary than a person with 5-10 years experience.

That is why people who come straight from college have very limited access to decision making in the field until they have proven themselves able to transfer a concept into reality.

That is why in the military NCOs are regarded more trustworthy than CO's until we have some sort of parity on experience.

.

Of course what happened went wrong, but really you don't know the details of what happened and stating that it was wrong for a person like this to try because they were not 'qualified' is incredibly naive and inaccurate.
 
Ok, you're in a different argument to me, because nothing that you write seems to tally with what I write. Unless of course you're suggesting that Chris Kyle knows more about treating PTSD than psychologists trained and experienced specifically in treating PTSD in which case, erm...fail?

In the gun control threads, it seems we have near unanimous agreement that mentally ill people should not have access to guns. Yet, now it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, so long as you're a celebrated vet with a bestselling book? I call BS.
 
Yes, that is my argument. That you know most about how to deal with a real life event and continue with your life by actually experiencing that event and continuing with your life. As opposed to studying it a completely different environment and postulating on it.

The education allows you to dip your feet in the water, it doesn't make you capable of swimming. The experience of swimming on the other hand should make dipping your feet in the water quite simple.
 
The willingness of people in this thread to speak ill of the dead before this war hero has even been buried and before we know all the facts of his death is...well, it's profoundly disappointing.
 
The willingness of people to put words in my mouth is...well it's profoundly disappointing.

I haven't judged him as a human being. I have criticised his actions that I believe lead to the deaths of 2 people. I would do the same to someone who got in the car with a drunk driver.

His bravery in Iraq speaks for itself. As does his willingness to help out returning veterans. He was clearly trying to help, but it certainly appears that he was trying to help in a very dangerous way. I'm sorry, but taking a PTSD suffering vet to a shooting range is like taking a recovering alcoholic to a bar.
 
This is an inflamitory and insensitive post. You are suggesting it is Mr. Kyles fault he was shot because he was trying to treat PTSD without proper training, by taking the person shooting. Mr. Kyle was a highly decorated navy SEAL, who proved himself in battle many times. I would say this gives him a unique perspective to help fellow vets with PTSD. Helping a suffering vet does not have to mean clinical treatment. It could be as simple as "I've been there too, your not alone. " Or encouraging him to seek professional help, maybe even helping him navagate the often(I'm told) confusing VA. Maybe you read a different article than me and have more info. What I read was, two men were shot a gun range by a fellow vet. One of the men shot was known to be attemping to help/support a fellow vet. I saw nothing about him attemping to deliver clinical therapy or that the three of them being at the range was some kind of treatment.
You, of course are entitled to draw baseless conclusions about others, by filling in the blanks from news stories. It is possible, but doubtfull things happened as you said.
Mr Kyle was a great hero not only at war but after when he came home and gave of himself to help his brothers in arms. Please keep your ignorant, infamitory assumtions to yourself.
 
No, I'm suggesting he took an unnecessary risk.

Utter crap. That's like saying a cancer survivor is better placed to treat cancer than a doctor. That's what I meant in my initial post - PTSD isn't a game, it isn't a joke. It's a serious medical condition that is misunderstood by too many. It is not a case of feeling under the weather and you can't treat it with a few well meaning words.

And if that's what he had done, he'd be alive today. And so would Chad Littlefield and Eddie Ray Routh wouldn't be looking at a life behind bars.

Chris Kyle's business partner said that Kyle was helping Routh with his PTSD. That feels like a pretty solid source to me.

I don't think baseless means what you think it does.

I'm making assumptions, I am. And until all the facts are out there, that's all any of us can do whilst forming an opinion about a tragedy that will ultimately cost three men their lives.
 
you could also keep them to yourself until such time, and appreciate the number of vets in this thread that are telling you that you are out of line to be throwing your opinions around.
 
You're right, of course. God forbid a discussion of the effects of PTSD on service personnel and the treatment options available to those veterans (or lack thereof) should break out.
 
It is a wonderful discussion, and one that certainly could be beneficial, but perhaps you should just read the thread again and realize that many are offended by your approach at this point, so rather than beating the same drum take a step back, reconsider and deliver your message again once people are more receptive.

That is if your purpose is to progress the conversation on PTSD rather than simply your perspective on it.
 
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