Some Judges Live On Another Planet

[mepan]

Under the Sharia a woman is seen as goods and chattels and her happiness is of little interest to the court.Islam is all about upholding the authority of men and keeping women in their place.Things will only change if there is an uprising by women as we had in the UK with the Suffragette movement.

 

[GoingCranky]

If it wouldn't be morally right then how can it be justified? Don't get me wrong I disagree with a lot of "moral" based arguments people have but that's because I have a very different moral system to the people I normally meet. If that made any sense.

I didn't think you literally meant the judge should be raped but it annoys me when people say thing like that. It just comes across the same way as the pathetic posturing you see from chavs talking about how they should teach someone a lesson. Simple rule I use: If you're not going to do something yourself, don't say it should happen.

 

[DAWLe]

What people are saying about the judge on this forum is cathartic hyperbole. It's empty rhetoric meant to simply express outrage.

What happened to that girl actually happened. She was raped while still a child. She went to the legal system for help, and instead, she was awarded as property to the rapist. She would have to submit to him again and again for the rest of her life, so seeing no other way out, she ended her life then and there, all while still a child. That's not an internet poster's angry hyperbole. That. Actually. Happened.

There is NO moral equivalency between the destruction of this child's life and the angry statements made on this forum. None.

 

[matt9923]

The reason I wasn't too offended by the comment is that I interpreted it differently from the way some of you guys did. I interpreted the comment as a suggestion that the judge was making a callous judgment from a position of happy ignorance, not a call for him to be raped. I think what John was saying was, "He has the luxury of thinking that way because he's never been through that," not, "Let's rape him!"

 

[Goldfishy]

I think you are taking the comments FAR too seriously. People often say things that they don't literally mean as a way of expressing their feelings, which in this case were obviously those of disgust and contempt for this appalling injustice.

 

[ElNene]

And me saying its the same (which I didn't btw) is hyperbolic too. Morals are personal and I explained my reasons for having a problem with it. If you don't like them cool, but I really don't care.


Same answer to you. I have a problem with it because I think its pointless and pathetic. I'm very much in line with the "nut up or shut up" mentality. If you disagree with me then fine but it really makes no difference.

 

[necole]

WARNING!

Ever the problem with rape threads...

People read about a rape incident and then out come the suggestions of rape as just punishment and in this case poisoning and then rape. Not on. Not at MAP. There are plenty of ways to disagree and express shock and horror at what's taken place without it becoming some macabre litany of retaliation fantasies. That's the bottom of the barrel. There are plenty of forums out there where you can post to your hearts content about revenge rape fantasies... MAP however is not one of them. Anyone doing so is looking squarely at a ban. I also suggest the thread remains civil and polite or it'll get locked down.

 

[hassankalidi]

This isn't Islam. So putting this at the door of Sharia is straight up wrong.

There are some pretty messed up rules regarding sexual activities in Islam, but allowing a rapist to escape punishment by marrying his victim isn't one of them.

This is more a cultural, rather than a religious tradition.

On the up side, cultural traditions are easily outlawed.

 

[DinaM]

Typical islamic kneejerk response in a male dominated society that treats women like property rather than a valuable human. Women are simply a commodity in this culture.

 

[tammyb]

Because they feel no self-respecting man will marry a woman who wasn't a virgin when they married.

 

[JerinK]

In Islam a man's word is worth twice that of a woman.Sharia courts usually side with men,women have little in the way of rights.By forcing the girl to marry the man the court upholds the man's honor.Its quite common for a court to order a rape victim to be flogged whilst the culprit walks away without any punishment.



Agreed,but the Sharia is used as an excuse to make these practices legal.Who would argue with the will of God?



You are joking? We have an uphill struggle to stamp out these practices in the UK.I remember one tragic case where a young girl had been forced into a marriage with a man twice her age and tried to kill herself by drinking bleach.She survived but still rebelled against the marriage so her family killed her.Her father and mother were both sent down for life.This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Forced marriages are usually done to keep money in the immediate family,hence the reason for marriages amongst first cousins.Its wrong and research has shown it can lead to all kinds of congenital disorders.

 

[Meatwad]

I'm not getting into an argument with you about Sharia, since it is irrelevant.

There is nothing in the Quran that says a man can escape punishment by marrying the woman he raped.


Is a religion at large at fault if someone perverts it for their own aims? Are all Christians at fault for the perversions of the Westboro' Baptists?


Cultural traditions are a lot easier to get rid of than religious ones.

 

[truckiefromdownunder]

99.99% of people who pontificate about 'Sharia' don't know what the hell it is, so I think you are wise to avoid getting imbroiled in yet another pointless discussion of it.

Good point.

Another good point.

To a degree that is true - but don't underestimate the persistance cultural traditions.

One of the ways that Christianity and Islam spread themselves across the world so successfully was because they absorbed local customs rather than trying to replace them with an identikit set of cultural values. This not only illustrates the power of local cultural tradition, but it also means that cultural and religious traditions are often intertwined to the extent that one can often be confused with the other.

I wish I had a pound for every time someone in a thread on MAP has harped on about some local tradition under the mistaken assumption that it was a universal tenet of Islamic faith.

 

[outlaw64]

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[ThankU2]

Then I suggest if that's the point that's trying to be made... it really needs to be made a lot more concisely... because that's not even remotely close to what was posted.

 

[PandoraRockefella]

Its not irrelevant at all,at least not to the subject matter of this post.I suggest you read the link I posted.The problem with rape in Sharia law is that the woman would have to produce four witnesses to testify that she had not sinned.Not any easy thing to do unless she is raped in public in full view of a crowd.Basically it is the woman who is escaping punishment by marrying the man who has raped her.In theory if the man was married she could face death by stoning for adultery.




All religions have been perverted at sometime or another for political gain.In the case of Morocco you have to ask why the electorate knowingly voted in an extremist party.In the UK we have the BNP but the electorate isn't stupid enough to vote them into office.

The Westboro' Baptists are a minority.I would compare them to organisations such as Muslims against Crusades who are not representative of all Muslims,but it is people with the same mindset as MAC who are now running Morocco.Would the Wesboro' Baptists have a chance of getting into power in the USA? I doubt it very much as most people there are unlikely to vote for outright bigots.


Cultural traditions are a lot easier to get rid of than religious ones.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the person.Someone who is well educated is more likely to let go of cultural baggage than someone who comes from a rural community and has no exposure to people outside of his own community.

 

[hillybilly135]

Johnno wrote

Hmm...a practice that spreads from North Africa to the borders of China can hardly be called local.No one is saying it is a universal tenet of the Islamic "faith" but rather an extreme interpretation of it.

One thing always makes me laugh with lefties.They are constantly trying to defend something that is almost abominable as Nazism.Do you really think that Muslims have any respect for you?

 

[AricH]

Actually, when people use Islamic as an adjective for things like this, they are more or less declaring it a universal tenet of the Islamic faith. I don't know what you thing Johnno is "defending"; I don't see him defending anything except awareness and proper use of words.

And the quotation marks you put around the word faith makes it abundantly clear what your feelings about Islam are, so I have a hard time taking you seriously.

 

[JohnnyCarcinogen]

The particular tradition here--forced marriage to the rapist--is local, sure. But like this, or stoning rape victims in Afghanistan, it's a way of dealing with an unpleasant conundrum that Sharia law does create. Sharia law DOES require the testimony of two or four (I forget which) eyewitnesses who are men in good standing in the community to convict someone of a crime. And women's word IS worth 0.5 men's word. And adultery IS a crime.

So a woman who accuses a man of rape admits the crime of adultery, but essentially can never meet the burden of proof to convict the man of rape. So long as Sharia courts are still used for criminal prosecution, there's no justice for rape victims. The exact injustice forced upon them varies from local population to local population, but so long as Sharia courts are being used to adjudicate crime, there's no justice for rape victims.

 

[BondiBoy53]

But you're a man, right? I've heard a lot of horror stories from women who have visited the Middle East.