Taking "God" out of the Holidays

I would not be offended at all by a Christian float (maybe a little bored...sorry ). I have no problem with people having their tenets...it is when people tout a certain lifestyle but only live it to the point that is necessary and use it as a guilt suppressor to make them feel like they are good people, instead of actually believing all that they profess.

I dunno...I suppose we are all like that to some degree and all talk about stuff that we don't really follow...but I just feel with religion that those who push it should be held to a higher standard since they tout themselves as being closer to God, etc, etc...

Hope I do not offend anyone, that is never my intention..I just seem to be unable to express myself in a way that does not sound attacking.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

In all seriousness, the god people happen to be right about this one.
This is completely different from opinions about chi, weightlifting volume, kata, etc. We're talking about what is a religious festival to many people, and they deserve not to have their religion persecuted. If religious people start talking about how they hate gays, and how sex is naughty, again, it becomes a different matter. In this instance, they're not- they're giving presents to each other, drinking and eating a lot, and remembering somebody who was, I think we can all agree, a pretty cool guy.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

The world tends to view the United States as a Christian nation. The fact is, however, millions of americans are NOT Christians, and feel alienated and repressed by this perception. The seperation of church and state is vital to the harmony and growth of a nation with a rapidly growing religious diversity. Great numbers of people, disillusioned with the status quo of Christianity, are looking elsewhere for spiritual fulfillment. Buddhism is one of the most rapidly growing religious trends in America today. Neo-paganism is also on the rise, along with various New Age and Universalist belief systems.

There is very little representation for these "alternative" religions in the public eye, yet signs of Christianity are everywhere. It is only natural that non-Christians tend to feel a bit repressed in this environment.

Christianity is a self-propagating religion. It encourages its members to go out and teach others about Christianity (historically, often forcedly); in other words, to convert them. It is not a passive religion in any sense. Christianity, in fact, has the distinction of being THE most invasive, proselytizing religion in the history of humanity. The most basic concept of Christianity is that nobody can go to heaven who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his or her saviour. Fear of the alternative--eternal damnation and suffering--creates a sense of great urgency, especially when you add to this the belief that the time of reckoning could be any day now (interestingly, they've been saying this for about the past 1800 years).

By contrast, most other world religions are far more accepting of others. Hindus, Buddhists, Neo-Pagans, Jews, and yes, even Muslims...all generally believe that people of other faiths can still go to heaven. But not Christians.

This is why non-Christians tend to get a bit touchy when icons of Christianity are continually waved before them. Perhaps, in time, old wounds will heal and a new spirit of religious freedom and cooperation will emerge. It will take effort on both sides.

Personally? I grew up with Christmas traditions, and it is hard to imagine a year without Christmas. Santa (a pagan icon), Christmas trees (another pagan symbol), presents (yep, pagan), mistletoe (you get the idea)...

If you want to celebrate a religious Christmas, you have every right to do that. I am a great believer in diversity and encourage everybody to celebrate their beliefs and express themselves spiritually. I don't have a problem with manger scenes and so forth around the holidays. I do believe that they have no place in schools or government, however.

As for God, that is something quite different. With the exception of atheists (who also have a right to their beliefs), every major religion contains the belief in some kind of supreme creative force. The name of "God" does not refer only to the god of the Christians, the Jews, or the Muslims (all believe in the exact same God). It also refers to Brahma, the Universal Source, the Goddess, the Force...or whatever your particular faith calls it. I see no particular need to remove the word "God" from our money, schools, or pledges. Of course, some (not all) atheists would prefer to remove that, too. I think a certain sense of comprimise is necessary, and perhaps an acknowledgement that we are human and quite simply do not have all the answers. Perhaps that is enough reason to keep some reference to the "Great and Unknowable"?
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

One thing that I find ironic is one of the things the Pilgrims who settled America did not like about the Anglican Church was their celebration of Christmas. From http://www.geocities.com/abecedarius/Pilgrims.html And now in the US it is a major holiday. For instance in the Greek Orthodox church Christmas is minor especially compared to Easter where you attend Church Thurs.-Sunday.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

As I recall, the 3 maggi came bearing gifts to Jesus. Were they Pagans?

[/QUOTE]
There is very little representation for these "alternative" religions in the public eye, yet signs of Christianity are everywhere. It is only natural that non-Christians tend to feel a bit repressed in this environment. [/QUOTE]

Boo hoo... poor non-Christians... being harrassed and "repressed" in such a manner! Maybe they should try living in a country where simply having a non-Government endorsed literature can get them arrested, beaten up, locked in prison and even killed. I dont think that non-Christians should find offence by Christian icons. I pass Mosques, Synagoges, Temples etc... all the time and have yet to feel "repressed". I was in Indonesia, a very Muslim country, and didn't feeel "repressed" by all the Islamic influence, which can be seen everywhere. After all, if non-Christians have their own beleif, then they should view items such as crosses, etc... as just another landscape item, such as a lampost. I am led to beleive that America is "The land of the free"... seems that the left-wing brigade want to change this.

Respectfully,

Wali
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

As a matter of fact, YES...they were, indeed, pagan.

Their gifts of frankincense, gold, and myrrh were not the only basis for this ongoing tradition, however. The exchange of gifts was part of the pagan tradition around Solstice. The ritual of gift-giving at Christmas was carried over from these pagan origins.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

American culture is probably the strangest I know of. I never realized how jacked up Christmas was here. I haven't heard a single Carol, not even on TV, but I've seen many adds from big chain stores who want you to dump your money on them so you can "exchange gifts". It seems like unnecessary spending to me, and people who'd rather not spend their money are pressured into it because of social expectations. It's bloody great for the economy, and whoever decided that it was a good idea to commercialize Christmas surely had the economy in mind. I really get a good laugh when I think about it.

As for me, I'm going to go home, sing some Carols, drink some sorrel/J Wray and Nephew Overproof rum, kick it with my brethren, go to church and spend minimal dough. My family has basically outgrown the gift giving crap, chillin' together is enough.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

Not necessarily. There is actually good evidence as to why December 25 was chosen as the date of Jesus' birth.


Besides, it would probably be more probable that what the Christians coopted was not the pagan Saturnalia but the Jewish festival Chanukkah, which happens on Chislev 25. It may be possible that Jesus was born on the first day of Chanukkah.

Hey! Today is the first day of Chanukkah! The celebrations actually started last night! So, even if I'm a little late--

Happy Chanukkah!May God be remembered this holiday season!


PS

I agree all the way!

I too would love to see more authentic Christians out there! But yes, I do not think people are really ready for a real Christian. I am a Christian (an evangelical Protestant), and if I lived in the States I probably would be characterized as one of the "Religious Right".

Yes, they were. They were Zoroastrians. But note: they came to worship Jesus.


Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis!
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

ya, but most of the traditions with christmas were adapted, but we shouldn't celebrate christmas the way we do. it isn't a time for presents or gift giving, or egg nog or any of the other traditional crap. christmas is suppose to be a time where people come together and remember that on this one night the whole fate of the world was changed through the birth of one person destined to save humanity. and by the way, the reasons we give gifts, or the true reason, is because the 3 wise men came baring gifts for the baby jesus. but your right, that must have started before christianity right? and so they picked the wrong day, big whoop, the day isn't important. days are all the same, what matters is the event the day symbolizes. i mean we do that on martin luther king day. he was born like three days before we celebrate his birthday, it just helps some people to have it on that day. so you may be right, the traditions of christmas could come from somewhere else. but why does that really matter? again, the meaning of the day is more important than the day itself.
oh and one last thing. its so weird how so many atheist don't believe in jesus but they'll give and expect gifts on the holidays. if you ain't in it all the way, you shouldn't be in it at all. how hypocritical to say we don't believe in that, but well certainly wouldn't mind benefiting from it. its gonna be sad when people realize just how ignorant they are. but don't worry, christians are ignorant in their own way. so we are all stupid.

I'M A FOOL FOR JESUS.............WHO ARE YOU A FOOL FOR?

Ian Nottingham

"How much do you love me," I asked Jesus. He said "This much," then spread his arms and died for me.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

The "winter concert" at our school was cancelled because a parent complained that a religious christmas song was included and didn't think it should be presented. Rather than risk complaints, the school just cancelled the whole thing. A bunch of kids were pretty upset.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

I don't blame the kids for being upset. That's an example of political correctness gone totally over-the-top crazy.

Think of all the time and effort the kids put in rehearsing, only to have the concert cancelled. So sad.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

At least the Aethist parents weren't "oppressed" by having to sit through a religious song!
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

Good for you. Me? I'll be giving presents and spending quality time with my family with NO thought for your god.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

Have fun. I'm with Yoda on this one, warm fire blazing, cool egg-nog, mulled wine, mince pies and turkey. Family sitting around, too heavy from Christmas dinner to move. Everyone in high spirits, tacky but fun music on the stereo, and the person I love curled up on my lap.

That's what Christmas means for me.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

And that's fair enough... However, many people would object to us openly worshipping, and showing signs of faith, in aim to promote a secular exterior. This sounds like fascism to me.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

Nope, wouldn't mind at all.

Unless of course you're doing it say, loudly in a shopping centre without the centre's permission, which'd make it a disturbance of the peace. If I'd get arrested for it, you certainly should.
 
Taking "God" out of the Holidays

Wasn't reffering to anyone specific.. Shouting it loudly in a shopping centre is quite an extreme case! I am referring to groups who object to things such as nativity plays in schools etc... Last time I checked, this was a Monarchy, and one of it's "duties" is as 'Defender of the Faith'.
 
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