It was started EXTERNALLY - not by a debtor or a jilted lover or a jealous wife or any other such crap...AN EXTERNAL PARTY
ARE WE THERE YET? They dragged their heels...if you think this is the behaviour of someone trying to avoid a debt you are barking
COLLECT EVIDENCE - not arrest and stitch up - SHE WAS STILL FREE AT THIS POINT!!!
ARE WE GETTING THE PICTURE? They talked about whether to proceed or not WITH HER OWN FAMILY!!!!
DID YOU READ THAT? SHALL I SPELL IT OUT?
They wanted to AVOID putting her on trail - can you see how stupid the conspiracy theory is? And can you see why we have all been telling you this since you started this crap-ball rolling?
Even a cursory google search would have told you all this - do your research next time
ARE YOU GETTING THE MESSAGE YET???? SHE GOT OFF LIGHTLY!!!!!
AHH!!! CONSPIRACY AHOY!!!!!
I love your "I don't care about Gilles De Rais" comment because it shows EXACTLY how much asininity you have been posting. He was accused of very similar things, tortured for testimony, his lands seized and he was executed
Yet you are concerned about "poor ickle Wizzy Baffory"?
You haven't told me anything i didn't already know. Of course a trial and execution would be scandolous, whats your point? You are the one drawing conclusions here not me.
BTW no confession obtained through torture would be valid today so are you saying you think Gilles was set up?
Yeah sure. If you say so Sherlock. I never claimed to have all the answers but apparently you do. BTW do you believe the official story is always prely accurate?
this sort of history is not a specialty, so... grain of salt force fields ENGAGE.
if we take similar stories (similar in the sense of mutually abnormal) of historical figures , we can see certain irregularities.
take for example vlad tepes (tepesh). the world knows him popularly as dracula. obviously not a real vampire, but legendary for other bloody exploits which included mass beheadings, slaying his own brother, etc. historical record do back up most of the stories. historians know, in gruesome detail how bad this guy was.
conversely, ivan the terrible, was so terrible as to be named "the terrible". so, legends or rumors that sprung up around him (possible attempts at slander?) we given the weight of truth. however, historians know now he was a very effective regent and that "terrible" was a mistranslation of an accolade the meant something like "awesome" or "majestic". the records back this up.
unless more concrete records turn up, we might not find out. it could very well be that she started out all right, acquired some debts payable (money she was owed) and then got pressured by the debtors to "back off". under such duress it is then possible that she simply escalated the situation to match any threats (real or imagined). to outsiders, this may have seemed like maniacal behavior, giving rise to such legends, which the opposition may have run with.
or she could have been a huge bitch.
regardless, in some sense, it is "fun" to speculate about such things.
if money was to be wagered though, would bet on her being a REALLY unpleasant (in the "somewhat dangerous" sense) person.
again, history of this sort not being a specialty, the thought has occurred that she may be a social construct. that is, not real in the literal sense. rather, "she" might be the embodiment of several tales (of different people, real or allegorical) that were brought together under one name. perhaps the names of the originals were not known they those telling the tales?
strictly speculative, of course. but did at one time consider this.
I muat have done, otherwise you would not trot out stuff relating to a conspiracy when every single bit of evidence and every behaviour demonstrated by involved parties shows is diametrically opposed to this?
Genius.....
No I am stating facts - you are touting innuendo based on nothing
The point is that if they WANTED to stitch her up there would of been much more of a furor...can you not see why your conspiracy theory is absolute tripe? They wanted to AVOID prosecuting her
I think he was a victim of precisely the thing Bathory wasn't - a conspiracy to seize lands and they would use any means to obtain that. De Rais was undoubtedly a violent man, but the list of things he was accused (and confessed to) are inconsistent with Western Occult traditions as well as being pure hyperbole. The use of torture to elicit them shows exactly what lengths they woudl go to to get what they wanted to hear
Bathroy suffered NONE of this and was treated very well despite her crimes
Perhaps she was treated well for a reason. Because the official story was not entirely true. You yourself said there were several different stories on number of victims etc. inconsistent accusations. Wanted to avoid prosecuting her is BS. It was a carefully planned prosecution and prosecute they did.
I never said she wasn't violent or innocent of any wrongdoing. The way she treated her servants was unforgiveable but she wasn't the only noble who did it.
Its your thinking skills i question. BTW you do know she was accused of feeding her victims to the wolves. likely story. You probably believe the old supersticion about wolves being in league with the devil.
well, at the least this thread has been interesting. educational. as stated before, this sort of history is not a specialty. so, anything new is good. just wondering hannibal, was history of this sort part of your education in law enforcement (something like: learn from these patterns, in order to recognize them at work today)?
it seems, in america at least, there is demand for officers with degrees (criminal justice and the like obviously) in different subjects. even things like sociology, politics, history or even various forms of engineering. the idea behind this being that a more "well rounded" force is a "more effective" force.
is there a similar attitude or approach over there?
Degrees are encouraged for those with aspirations of management.
Serial killers and pathology of same are a pet interest of mine...and my wife's ironically. My knowledge of Western Occult Tradition? That has a different origin that I do not openly discuss (persoanl privacy choice)