There is No Such Thing as Race

CarlyF

CarlyF

New member
Islamic Jihadists also think with their soul, and not their brain. See where it's getting them?

I don't see how geneticists can be "false", either. They are scientists, and science is based on facts. It is proven that race has no genetic basis, and is therefore a social construct.
 
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MreT

Member
Hi, when I was 18 I went from the west coast to the east coast as a Marine. When I got to the airport I saw all these signs that said stuff like certan groups use this drinking fountain etc. Then I saw a sign about how servicemen need to stay off the grass along with others, that was ok for dogs were using the grass for things I did not care for. The n word was used and posted quite frequently. I could not go into a bar for blacks only and others were for whites only. I was like wow I can drink beer here LOL... Thats great, CA was a 21 year old state.

I, as a service man was really targeted in the 60's and also as law enforcement we were called names everywhere we went, by people that were not good enough to tie our shoes we figured. Skin got thick, big time.

I had several amigos aboard ship and we went around the world together and could go anywhere we wanted but when we got back to the states we could not go have a drink together in Norfolk VA.

You need to realize others have gone before you and you have it pretty good now. If you were a communist, black and a professor in the 60's I can feel for you. Angela Davis comes to mind.

Hang in there and read more about your history in the last 44 years since a certain person got equal rights for many, he did not even realize would benefit from it.
As in LEO persons. Women just got the vote, has not been 100 years yet in America. Talk about something hard to understand

Now the muslim community can walk around with out feeling like they are wrong. Because a young man name of Cassus Clay stood up and was counted. He did a lot for both his religion and his color. Try and be like him. You will be a lot happier I believe. Read about his life and be thankful.

I saw him fight in the Olympics (1960 in Rome) for a country that would not allow him in the same bath room, in much of the country. Pretty good now but at one time it was pretty ugly. Go west young man.

Gary
 
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SNITSKY

New member
Well, there's also kind of racism that can be justified by statistical facts. If violence/sexual crimes are more common amongst some races, how not to begin having negative thoughts about that race? Do they do more crimes because they are victims or racism or just don't fit into our culture.. Whatever the reason, some groups of people that can be identified by color of skin actually do more violence/sexual crimes and that causes more racism. And for a good reason.. Of course I try to judge people individually, but I gotta admit that I might have suspicions on certain races. Cannot help it.
 
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TY2D2

New member
In my view there are actually several separate issues here: While it's true that some people are no doubt intrinsically racist - for example, a person of one race believing the members of another race tend to be lazy/criminal/whatever. That's what you might call unacceptably racist.

But some people might also have a positive prejudice against a particular race... say, that a lot of Jews end up in careers such as being lawyers or bankers.

Our knee jerk reaction to the unacceptable racism is to condemn it as nonsense, even though both kinds of prejudice may contain elements of truth... although obviously the reasons for such trends would be far more likely to be cultural and social than genetic.



Then, an entirely different kind of prejudice is based on individuals we meet in every day life. Doubtless many people in ethnic minorities feel they've been met with negative attitudes due to their ethnicity. However my personal perception is that people make those pre-judgements based far more on overall appearance and presentation than ethnicity.

I'd feel very differently about a large tattooed black gangsta approaching me to ask the time than a black middle aged male in a suit.
 
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catm

Member
Yes there is such a thing as race with physiological differences. Are these differences great, NO, but they exist none the less. Differences dont have to be huge to be different, just like racism doesnt have to involve segregation to be racism. If someone is actively predjudiced against another person because of there skin colour, then that is racism. If you are going to deny race, what is next, that cultural groups are not different, language dialects are not different, male and female are not different. There is nothing wrong with using "race", it is only if you use that term to predjudice against someone.

Just my 0.02.
 
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MarvinR

New member
Yes that is a good explanation. We do judge people pretty quick, based on our own prejudice. Believe it or not it is truly a two way street.

Gary
 
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GreasedUpDeafGayGuy

Member
This is a valid point but I think you have to look beyond race (with the exception that statistics aren't really facts, there are any number of ways of distorting them and people generally infer too much from them). There may be an underlying causal link such as a greater proportion of that race live in poverty or are unemployed or have a more limited access to education etc.

In addition there is a distinction to be made between race and culture. Gang culture for example is common in poorer urban areas and as such people living in these areas are likely to become involved in such cultures. Again the proportion of different ethnic groups living in these areas is a distortion of the national average.



I'm not stubborn but you'll have to prove your point to me before I roll over. I don't know what a false geneticist is but I suppose I may be one. The problem with thinking with your soul or like a human is as ninjapiratecaptain pointed out our primal, genetically encoded behaviour is actually fairly divisive (if you don't believe there are arguments to this effect in Matt Ridley's The Origin of Virtue). It is more likely that in thinking like humans we will end up with another Kristalnacht rather than anything positive.

Manifest destiny, the slave trade, Bosnia and the Holocaust were all caused in part by people bowing to the temptations of the worse side of human nature.
 
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LIL_MAMA

Member
No there isn't, if such a prejudice is accomodated by your understanding of statistics then it sugests a poor interpretation of the data. Such statistics even where acurate are the result of the structural locale of identity groups. If the identity of the group is the statistical referent instead of structural locale then the data can be misleading and result in illegitimate conclusions. For example:

An illegitimate conclusion:



A legitimate conclusion:
 
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CarribeanKing

New member
I'm afraid this is what happens when people- both scientists and the general public- place too much importance in DNA. Yes, there might not be enough evidence to support differentiation based on genotype, but there are obvious groups of phenotypes in different parts of the world- and long may it remain so. It'd be very boring if we really were all the same.
 
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TexasAngel

Member
There is more to it that phenotype groupings though, these can only really be associated with different ethnicities. Surely cultural (local, national and religious) and social conditioning are responsible for a greater degree of diversity than ethnicity. With increased population movement I don't believe that the old assumptions which tie ethnic groups to particular cultural traditions are as valid as they once were. Also I would contend that phenotypic groupings are not obvious. Any grouping is just an abstraction of the continuous nature of human diversity and, as such, is subject to the arbitrary constraints placed on the grouping procedure by the observer.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible to divide people up into different races by applying some membership or clustering criteria to either pheno- or genotypes. I am saying that the process is ultimately pointless as it is difficult to ascribe any other properties (traditions, behaviours or otherwise) to those groups with any degree of accuracy.

Of course as others have pointed out we are genetically programmed to perform just such groupings on a sub-conscious level but this doesn't mean we have to bow to these stereotypes on a conscious level or to rationalise them with statistics or pseudo-science (see The Bell Curve).

I'm not arguing against diversity either, its great, it makes life interesting. I just don't see the need to classify it.
 
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joy_seb

New member
Well here's one statistic: 15-20% of suspected rapists are foreigners and there is 2.1% of foreigners in Finland. Seems quite a huge amount of sexual crimes for 2% of people. There's the word "suspected", but I think it's kinda easy for victim of rape to know if rapists was foreigner.. There are cultures where victims of rape are lynched to death, because they have caused lost of honor to their family. And there are african refugees, airplane comes and it's rumoured that usually it's filled with healthy looking males, for me, it seems that they are criminals that have taken the place of real refugees. Cannot turn them back, it's the UN humanity treaty that says that refugees must be received.

I feel like racism towards african refugees and people (males only though) of such cultures that kill victims of rape is pretty easily justified. So, racism can be targeted to cultural groups too, hating african criminals doesn't mean hating all africans.. Neonazis and such goups have just caused the resistance of refugees and foreigner criminals to be big no-no, and all medias instantly make people look bad that try to say something that is against foreigner people, even if it is a truth.. And in media they have started hiding racial attributes when they report of some crime. They can tell that suspect is 180 cm tall with black hair, but there are cases where it has remained untold that suspect also has black skin.
 
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HelenaW

New member
Lots of points here. Firstly I don't know the facts on the statistics so I'll take them as being true. You seem to be saying that there are a disproportionate number of foreigners being accused of rape. OK. Maybe a disproportionate number of foreigners are poor? Maybe there is bias in the reporting.

There is an interesting article about this very phenomenon here:
http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20000822xx3

Of particular interest is the fact that the Finnish police believe that most rapes in Finland go unreported and that most of those are actually carried out by " relatives, friends, and acquaintances of Finnish victims." Statistics can be misleading.


Secondly, there are cultures where raped women are killed. Yes I believe there are, how widespread that culture is is debateable and as we previously discussed race is not equivalent to culture. Such practices are barbaric but you simply cannot label an entire culture, much less an entire race, on the basis that some members feel that such actions are justified. Britain, where I live has a drink culture. In this culture some people feel that going out, drinking too much then hitting someone in the face with a bottle is acceptable. Does this mean that all Brits who drink are violent, or that all British are violent or even all white poeple are violent? Of course not.

Thirdly, rumours of healthy looking males. Well, firstly its a rumour and secondly do all refugees have to look starved? Also that bit about criminals taking their places is pure speculation and scaremongering. Maybe in a fraction of a percent of cases but nothing more. Unless, of course, you have some sort of evidence?

Fourthly, ranting about media conspiracies is best left alone.

Lastle, none of what you have said really contributes to the arguments regarding whether race exists or is a meaningful concept. It is mostly selective evidence to justify racism.
 
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nomole

New member
Please don't parade your utter idiocy so flamboyantly. Some of us are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt... you're making it rather hard.
 
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