Thread split - homeschooling

You are not getting my point at all. And honestly, I am getting mad at you because youre starting to get kinda nasty and condesending here. I think youre taking my posts the wrong way.Question: If the parent is incapable of comprehending 8th grade math, then who is teaching the child math? Maybe there is something im missing here.




Im gonna edit the person A and person B situation here to how I feel about this :

Person A: I want to do X.
Person B: But some people are incapable of safely doing X,Therefore, because some people will do it wrong we need to be carefull with who we allow to do it.



Im not talking about the government outlining what you can and can not teach your children, or restricting the environment in which you can teach them, or the hours, or style of teaching, which is what they do in public schools. Im talking about the government placing restrictions based on educational qualifications of the persons to be administering the education to the child.
 
Haha! Yeah, good luck teaching Calculus or chemistry to her. Or a foreign language. What if she wants to take shop? Or Drama? If you really have the money to blow on that sort of thing, then I hate you for being so damn rich.

PL
 
What my niece and nephew does, is that if my sister in law can't teach something, say math, another parent will teach that part. Then my sister in law might teach something she's qualified in, say english. There a lot of teaching/sharing going on.
 
This is very different from what many people think home schooling is. Heck, I never thought of homeschoolers sharing the teaching responsibilities with eachother to cover all areas untill I saw a TV show involving people who home school. Makes plenty of sense.

Im sure there are lots of good resources out there for people who home school, especially with the web. People can coordinate with others in their area by subject matter, and help eachother out. But I still feel that because of those that wouldnt care to take advantage of these kind of resources, there needs to be some checks in place to protect the kids that get the short end of the stick.
 
Homeschooling...a topic I have thought a lot about because at one point I was seriously tempted to do it. I had many of the concerns that Tika and others have brought up and did vast amounts of research into it.

In Manitoba, in order to be home schooled you have to meet the same requirements and cirriculum that a publically educated child does. Being homeschooled is strictly regulated - you can go ahead but they won't let you fall behind.

I know in the areas I felt deficient in (such as French and some math programs) there was a well-established support network setup amongst the homeschooling community to make sure that your child would have excellent tutelage in those subjects.

As far as socialization goes, I have never counted on school solely for my child's interaction with peers and other adults. They have their church, community, volunteer work, their sports and other activities. The homeschool network even arranges group fieldtrips so that the kids get to meet and interact on a regular basis with other kids their own ages. My daughters best friends don't even attend the same school as she does so it woudn't have had a huge effect anyway.

Why did I even consider it in the first place? Public schools are geared toward the lowest common denominator. Especially if you are in a rural division such as ours. Political correctness and tyranny of the minority rule when it comes to what is considered "acceptable" within public schools. Discipline has fallen to abysmal levels and a huge proportion of the time is spent in learning about social issues and other peoples agendas as opposed to learning to read, write and do arithmetic.

I was fortunate to find a wonderful French Immersion school in my division where academics, excellence and discipline are stressed. There is no swearing, there are no skimpy outfits, the children sit in their desks, not on them, hands are raised when you wish to speak and there is quiet when quiet is needed. It is a nice, old-fashioned schools where the kids feel safe, comfortable and secure.

If I had not found that school, both of my children would have been homeschooled.
 
This is one of the reasons that some of my views on education are a bit controversial. I dont really agree with complete inclusion. And I think we should go with tracking. PC is deffinitely right, I cant stand the fact that as a freshman in highschool, I was in a math class intended for sophmores, but also had seniors in it. I dont think that you should teach the same way to different ability levels at the same time, and thats what we do over here. Germany deffinitely has the right idea with schools in my opinion. Split them all up after like 6th grade. Alternative school for all the little criminals, Vocational training, working class stiff bound , and professional bound (bad terminology of course but I cant remember the names of the different schools...only one...gesampt schule...dont remember hehe).... Of course kids can move from one to the other, but at least you have people working on their strengths and not holding eachother back or people getting left behind.
 
The public or private school teacher. In every case. No such parent would try to teach that subject to his/her child. It's a false hypothesis.

Counter-argument: "But what if the parent does it anyway?"
Counter to that counter: Our public schools are already failing in spite of numerous govt regulations. So, what was your point again?

What you're really, literally saying, amie, is that a parent would purposefully, willingly, knowingly, voluntarily, not educate his child. You're actually saying that a parent would take his child out of a public school for the express, literal, actual purpose of not teaching him math (or whatever the subject).

You just blew my mind. That is so foreign to everything inside me.



I wish they would do that in the public schools. Our children are not getting taught as it is.
 
Im very confused here. I thought we were talking about home schooling.



As for counter argument, thats out of left field.
For the counter to counter: Yes theyre failing, I never said they werent. And im not suggesting we impose those same faulty regulations on home schoolers. Just as I said in my last post.



amie? whats that mean?

Im saying, that some parents pull their children out of school for the wrong reasons (paranoid and controlling for some, some in the dancing situation I mentioned earlier), and that some parents pull their children out for the right ones. And some parents are capable of doing it the right way, and some are not. And in my opinion it would be good to have more regulations in some places. SOME places are to lax in there monitoring of home schooling, SOME people shouldnt be alowed to do it. Remember please, I say SOME not ALL not even MOST... just some.
 
Amie means friend.

Obviously we don't follow the same flavor of logic. Me says:
Regulation of public schools.
Public schools bad.
Conclusion: don't put those failing regulations on this other type of schooling.

That which is poison, is poison. The government screwed up public schools. There's no reason whatsoever for me in logic or experience to believe that the government can improve upon homeschooling by doing that which it is doing in public schools. But you obviously know something in logic or experience that leads you to believe that the gov't regulation poisonous to public schools won't be poisonous to homeschoolers. Good for you! There may be hope for our country yet.



'Tis wrong to suggest that a parent who doesn't know math would try to teach math. False hypothesis by you. I fixed your false hypothesis. Another possible answer, though, is that a fellow homeschool parent would teach math for that child. Sometimes parents band together and share the load.
 
Ok, maybe we're not on the right track here. Define homeschooling, please. Just to make sure me, and you, and Tika, and Mrs. Owt are on the same page...

PL
 
This is really frustrating, because I dont know im not listening to you or youre not listening to me. I know youre not in favor of big government. And im guessing that that is a lot of what youre talking about. And thats fine, no problem with that, but here you say "dont put those failing regulations on this other type of schooling" and if thats a statement that has nothign to do with my post than fine, but if youre implying I think we should apply the same regulations to home schooling as we do public school, thats just wrong.



Listen, I agree that our system of education needs a lot of reform. My father is a teacher, and my brother is a teacher, and I was studying to become a teacher. I grew up listening to my father rant and rave about how hard it is to do your job well with the stupid regulations that are placed on them. And not once did I say that the same regulations that are placed on public schools should be placed on home schooling. Im so beating a dead horse right now because ive said this same exact thing, to this same thing yorue saying, a few times now. And it just starting to get rediculous.



[I almost said something nasty here but before I do, are you being a smart alec? The way Im reading these last three sentences makes me fuming, Ihope I read it wrong]



Thats awesome, I didnt know how much this actually occured. I dont know a ton about home schooling, Ill openly admit that. I only know what I know about the people Ive met that were home schooled. And whatever I know of teaching, and of course little bits of reading here and there.
 
Interesting. In my highschool, when I was a freshman, I was in an honors math class intended for juniors, but there was no one older than a sophomore in it (only three freshmen, or so, though).
 
In mine we had people who had failed the class three times with the people who were advanced as well as on schedule.
 
There are, as always, philisophical arguements for both sides. And emotional ones as well, it seems.
At the risk of being flamed, I will try to throw some fact in as well.
Regulations and systematic testing have never really be fully tested. No one knows if they work because by the time you have students who have been put through the entire system and will show accurate results, the regulations and tests are changed. We honestly don't know how well the students are doing because we can't test acuratly. Kind of like the Texas TEKS. We have set curriculum we have to teach and we have tests with certain objectives that students have to meet. The students being tested now went through school under a different system. They aren't doing well. Of course not, you changed the parameters on them half way through.
I am also more in favor of the German system. And yes, there are parents who take their children out of school with no or little intention of teacing them anything. There are, as always abuses on both sides. And in larger towns and cities, there are enough parents who can teach different subjects that most everything is covered. I would feel comfortable homeschooling my (hypothetical) child, but then, I am also a certified science teacher and have pretty good knowledge of other subjects as well. I don't know that everyone would be in the same boat, however, and without help, I don't think the quality of education would be as good.
I have observed students who have metriculated through public, private and homeschooling. On average (in college) homeschoolers are not as well equiped to handle universities. There are, of course, exceptions. There are always exceptions.
 
Parents teach their children reading, writing, arithmetic, etc., alone or with the help of other parents.


No Tika, I'm not trying to be a smart alek. I'm trying to point out the hypocracy and illogic of a pro-government-regulation point of view. I too come from a family of public school teachers: mom, aunt, two grandparents. My best friend's wife is a public school teacher, and another close friend is a public school teacher.

We agree that public schools fail on the whole to educate.
We agree that public schools are highly regulated by governments.
We agree that children need to be educated.
We agree that, presently, homeschooling is an alternative to the public schools.

You advocate some as-yet-undefined kind of government regulation on the parents who homeschool because you are afraid that some parents might not actually educate the child(ren) they pulled out of the public school.

Correct so far? I think so, so I'll proceed. If I'm wrong I'll come back and delete my wrongness, and try again.

I say that your conclusion does not fall from the facts before it. You have a non sequitor. You also have a false hypothesis.

Non sequitor: There is no evidence that government regulation of teachers improves the education of our students. At the present time all public school teachers are required, by law, to have a college degree and to continue their own education and to take various certification course. Despite this, we still have 3rd graders (and up!!!) who can't read. I specifically recall Pres. Clinton campaigning for re-election on a plan to teach all students by age 8 to read. The unspoken but NECESSARY implication is that we presently have 8-year-olds and even older students who can't read. That's the 3rd grade, mind you, so Clinton admited to the nation and the world that despite all the US government regulation of public schools and all the State regulations and all the county regulations, we still have students in the 3rd grade and higher who can't read. And we have so many of them that it is an epidemic of such MASSIVE proportions that the President of the United States has to personally get involved in the matter.

Wow. I say again, wow. That's scary. And that ruins your assertion that government regulation of teachers improves education. It's actually a strong case for stopping government regulation.

And that's just reading. We haven't even gotten to math, or geography, or English. I assume without knowing that you too have heard over the years of repeated geography tests given to US students wherein they can't find Washington, DC on a map. Products of government regulation of teachers, I tell you.

Tell me, then, why government regulation of teachers improves education? If it doesn't improve education, then why in the world should we advocate it at any level? I am confused. Your proposal does not fall from the facts as I see them.

Your false hypothesis is the assumption that parents who pull their children out of the failing public schools will not education their own children very well. I assert that that is ridiculous on two grounds. One, it goes against the purpose of pulling the student out of the failing school system. Am I really to believe that a parent would swap one failing system for another failing system? That makes no sense to me. To the best of my knowledge homeschool children as a group score higher than their public school counterparts on every single standardize exam in this country. That should mean something to you. And wasn't it last year that the winner of the national spelling bee was a homeschooler?

But even if your worry is true in particular discrete situations, what's the harm? The public schools are not good! What then does it matter if the replacement is not good either? I'm confused by your argument.
 
As long as one is not being abusive, how one raises one's children is one's own business.

I bid this thread adieu.
 
I am against homeschooling except when extremely necesary, like in badger's case. I believe school is an excelent way to meet people and understand life, meet a lot of interesting people and above all establish relationships.

I agree with aikimak that public schools are ineficient but on the same token society as a whole is ineficient so might aswell get used to it from the start. For example I went to a local computer store to get myself a RAM stick and I was looking at some crosshair sticks when I asked the techy what was the latency on them. The guy, who supposedly is A+ certified and probably had to study for a few years, just stood there and asked me "latency?" Then he sent me to the sales specialist or some other ego-boosting title who guess what? Asked me the same question! The funny thing though is that after I was about to send them all to hell and burst out the door I realized that the latency was written in the case 2-2-2. Moral of the story? Society is messed up, might aswell get some connections on the way up. And of course you have to remember that the oxygen decreases as you go up so you are very likely to find yourself working for someone who is dumber than you. Like Guy Kawasaki says "A players hire B players, B players hire C players, C players hire D players, D players hire E players; you wake up one day and are surrounded by bozos."

Note: This is not an attack on anyone who homeschools their kid, I am just voicing my oppinion and I know some will disagree. Please do not take offense on anything I have said.
 
Im not gonna respond to your post. I read It, and I understand, I just dont have the energy to continue this conversation anymore. I made whatever points I wanted to make, you made yours, I have no other thoughts on the matter.
 
Wow ... who'd a thought this issue of homeschooling would bring such heated debate.

All I can say is that my sister-in-law homeschooled all of her 5 children --ages ranged from pre-school, elementary to high school.

All were introduced to many various social activiities outside of the home to compensate.

The oldest entered college at age 16 .... straight A's ... is a concert pianist and now going for her masters now at 20 and then her doctors in physics after that.

Some homeschool for religious reasons. These parents want to combine heir children's academic education with their religious education. They want to pass along their family's morals and values. Some parents homeschool their children for educational reasons. These parents believe that their children will be able to receive a better, more thoughtful education at home rather than at school. Some parents homeschool because they do not want their children to spend their formative years in age-segregated institutions, learning what someone else thinks is important. Still others homeschool because they live overseas or because they live too far from school. There are a variety of reasons and who are you all to judge?

Just because homeschooling is right for one family doesn't mean that it is right for everyone.... at least we have the freedom of choice.... still.
 
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