Thread split - homeschooling
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Conformity no, the ability to work with people you don't agree with, yes.
So what, you have no plans for your daughter's science education? I am serious about that, you ought to start looking into it now.
What is the problem then, because I don't think you have it identified either. I looked back through your posts and man, have you been sitting with your head in the sand.
No ability to raise your hand and get help? So what? I DON'T spend the majority of my class running about helping students? You're right, highschool isn't all touchy-feely learning styles. Neither is college, which is what, theoretically, we are trying to prepare your students for. Elementary uses learning styles much more then, say, I would. Not grouping girls and boys? So they should be isolated from each other never to learn how to deal in a working situation with one another? Individual attention and learning assessments? All the time. How much do you know about public education, really?
When students are successfull it has less to do with where they are going to school then what is expected from them or what they expect from themselves. I have taught in some really poor and bad areas. Places where it is considered a waste to educate females because all they are going to do is have babies anyway. Yet even is this environment I have seen significant success, young women who are driven to become educated and to have more in their lives then their mothers. I have seen the difference that parents make in an education. I have seen young men whose fathers have died because of their envolvement with drug trade not only graduate, but get scholarships to good schools. So you're going to look at me and tell me that my profession is defunct, yet I don't get the sense that you have the least clue as to what I do and what teachers everyday do and sacrifice for students.
I am sure that you expect a lot from your children, and I am sure that is why they are excelling. But a few exeptions don't, for me, counter all the ill that I have seen come out of the homeschooling system.
Money and equioment go a long way to solving problems in the schools. Whem money is spent on the students themselves and the equipment that they need, then those schools are phenomenal. Look at your demographics and for every truely exempliary school you point to, I will nine times out of ten, show you a school in an area where the majority of the incomes are above national average. Pure and simple. And if you think that students can understand science without this equipment, check out the TAKS scores for low income schools. They don't pass the test because they don't do the labs. Period.
So what, you have no plans for your daughter's science education? I am serious about that, you ought to start looking into it now.
What is the problem then, because I don't think you have it identified either. I looked back through your posts and man, have you been sitting with your head in the sand.
No ability to raise your hand and get help? So what? I DON'T spend the majority of my class running about helping students? You're right, highschool isn't all touchy-feely learning styles. Neither is college, which is what, theoretically, we are trying to prepare your students for. Elementary uses learning styles much more then, say, I would. Not grouping girls and boys? So they should be isolated from each other never to learn how to deal in a working situation with one another? Individual attention and learning assessments? All the time. How much do you know about public education, really?
When students are successfull it has less to do with where they are going to school then what is expected from them or what they expect from themselves. I have taught in some really poor and bad areas. Places where it is considered a waste to educate females because all they are going to do is have babies anyway. Yet even is this environment I have seen significant success, young women who are driven to become educated and to have more in their lives then their mothers. I have seen the difference that parents make in an education. I have seen young men whose fathers have died because of their envolvement with drug trade not only graduate, but get scholarships to good schools. So you're going to look at me and tell me that my profession is defunct, yet I don't get the sense that you have the least clue as to what I do and what teachers everyday do and sacrifice for students.
I am sure that you expect a lot from your children, and I am sure that is why they are excelling. But a few exeptions don't, for me, counter all the ill that I have seen come out of the homeschooling system.
Money and equioment go a long way to solving problems in the schools. Whem money is spent on the students themselves and the equipment that they need, then those schools are phenomenal. Look at your demographics and for every truely exempliary school you point to, I will nine times out of ten, show you a school in an area where the majority of the incomes are above national average. Pure and simple. And if you think that students can understand science without this equipment, check out the TAKS scores for low income schools. They don't pass the test because they don't do the labs. Period.
My daughter is already learning science. I have no fear for her future. Money does not equal knowledge, but since you asked, yes, we do have a microscope, and a telescope too. She's not ready for a chemistry set yet.
Two grandparents and one aunt were career educators. Mom got a teaching degree but raised a family instead of working as a teacher. One brother is a college professor. His wife is finishing an education degree. I went to public school K-9, and finished at a private high school.
My grandmother, the retired public school teacher, was thrilled when I started homeschooling my daughter. She did not want my daughter to go to public schools! Wow! (Grandpa died a long time ago.) My sister-in-law wants to homeschool when she has children because she's disgusted with the "education" theories that she's being taught. My brother agrees with that plan. He is disgusted with the quality of students he gets out of the public schools. Too many of them don't know graofftopicr, or spelling, or logic, or history, or discipline. Oh, they live in Minnesota. Grandma taught in Pennsylvania.
Yep.
I do not blame teachers for anything. I blame state supervisors, county supervisors, and principals. Certainly you see the same reports that I see regarding SAT scores going down over time. Certainly you see the same reports that I see regarding America bombing on every international exam. Certainly you see the same reports that I see about homeschoolers as a class scoring better on standardized exams than public school students. Certainly you have looked at American text books from 50 or 100 years ago, and been astonished at what students learned back then.
Who's in charge? Duh -- state supervisors, county supervisors, and principals. It's their fault.
Seriously, I have an 8th grade math textbook from about 80 years ago. (I bought it at an antique store.) My Purdue Univ students could not have done those problems. I'm dead serious.
Explain that old 8th grade math book.
If money and equipment are the answer to our problems, then our problems would have been solved a long time ago, and we wouldn't have annual calls for more money, and President Clinton would not have blabbed to the world that our eight-year-olds can't read. (How embarrassing that was!)
Two grandparents and one aunt were career educators. Mom got a teaching degree but raised a family instead of working as a teacher. One brother is a college professor. His wife is finishing an education degree. I went to public school K-9, and finished at a private high school.
My grandmother, the retired public school teacher, was thrilled when I started homeschooling my daughter. She did not want my daughter to go to public schools! Wow! (Grandpa died a long time ago.) My sister-in-law wants to homeschool when she has children because she's disgusted with the "education" theories that she's being taught. My brother agrees with that plan. He is disgusted with the quality of students he gets out of the public schools. Too many of them don't know graofftopicr, or spelling, or logic, or history, or discipline. Oh, they live in Minnesota. Grandma taught in Pennsylvania.
Yep.
I do not blame teachers for anything. I blame state supervisors, county supervisors, and principals. Certainly you see the same reports that I see regarding SAT scores going down over time. Certainly you see the same reports that I see regarding America bombing on every international exam. Certainly you see the same reports that I see about homeschoolers as a class scoring better on standardized exams than public school students. Certainly you have looked at American text books from 50 or 100 years ago, and been astonished at what students learned back then.
Who's in charge? Duh -- state supervisors, county supervisors, and principals. It's their fault.
Seriously, I have an 8th grade math textbook from about 80 years ago. (I bought it at an antique store.) My Purdue Univ students could not have done those problems. I'm dead serious.
Explain that old 8th grade math book.
If money and equipment are the answer to our problems, then our problems would have been solved a long time ago, and we wouldn't have annual calls for more money, and President Clinton would not have blabbed to the world that our eight-year-olds can't read. (How embarrassing that was!)
Believe me I know about the state of things. I deal with it every day.
The main problem is, to my thoughts, not the system in and of it self, but what has come to control the system. Pulling kids out willy-nilly doesn't help, maybe its just that I have always worked in poor schools, but yes, actually having a budget helps. You do need money to educate students, something that people tend to want to forget. That's also part of the reason that private schools do so much better then public schools (my personal choice for when I have children of my own). The tuition they charge allows them to have more money budgeted to supplies.
I am more then willing to conceed that you are doing a good job homeschooling your child (as I said I truely believe that the determinate of whether students do well resides in the expectations of the parent and their homelife).
I have just seen too much to be able to say that homeschooling is a solution to the education problem. Like I said one (or two or three) students properly prepared cannot erase the memory of the two to three dozen homeschool students that I have met who were severly sold short on their education.
The main problem is, to my thoughts, not the system in and of it self, but what has come to control the system. Pulling kids out willy-nilly doesn't help, maybe its just that I have always worked in poor schools, but yes, actually having a budget helps. You do need money to educate students, something that people tend to want to forget. That's also part of the reason that private schools do so much better then public schools (my personal choice for when I have children of my own). The tuition they charge allows them to have more money budgeted to supplies.
I am more then willing to conceed that you are doing a good job homeschooling your child (as I said I truely believe that the determinate of whether students do well resides in the expectations of the parent and their homelife).
I have just seen too much to be able to say that homeschooling is a solution to the education problem. Like I said one (or two or three) students properly prepared cannot erase the memory of the two to three dozen homeschool students that I have met who were severly sold short on their education.
bigjimmyguy
New member
Well, first it would be nice if someone actually started to talk to teachers. Politions control your public education and they aren't exactly a group of people who are willing to really get into the gears of a problem and spend time actually working out a solution that would do anything more then make them look good for the next election. Sorry if I come off bitter, but I am. Politions do not plan anything, they merely react and in doing so, they have caused a large down fall. Students are no longer held responsible for their actions. When a student fails, parents will literally come to me and ask why I failed them, as though I just pulled grades out of a hat and threw them at names. We have become so worried about maintaining "self-esteem" that they are no longer taught self-worth or self-reliance. All of the principals and school boards demand that the curriculum be watered down. At one school you actually had to give the students a copy of any test before you gave it to them. And students still failed. I would call that a cultural failing more then anything.
We do need revamping. Our system hasn't been reorganized since the early 20th century. Personally I wouldn't mind looking into the German system and perhaps adjusting it.
Truth is, in Texas, you can't convince most people that homeschooling is effective. The reason is, most people take their children out due to religous reasons, not academic ones. They produce very nice, very polite, intelligent and responsible young people who are not always prepared to deal with the real world.
Neither system is perfect. And it troubles me that you refuse to even consider acknowledging the fact that homeschooling is an imperfect system with a massive potential for abuse.
We do need revamping. Our system hasn't been reorganized since the early 20th century. Personally I wouldn't mind looking into the German system and perhaps adjusting it.
Truth is, in Texas, you can't convince most people that homeschooling is effective. The reason is, most people take their children out due to religous reasons, not academic ones. They produce very nice, very polite, intelligent and responsible young people who are not always prepared to deal with the real world.
Neither system is perfect. And it troubles me that you refuse to even consider acknowledging the fact that homeschooling is an imperfect system with a massive potential for abuse.
rxing
New member
You're preaching to the choir!
And this is supposed to make me want to send my child to your school?!
Again, I don't blame the teachers, I blame the supervisors and the principals.
Interesting. Our present system was based upon the German system of the time.
Anything with humans at the wheel is subject to abuse. But, I absolutely deny that in principle homeschooling is imperfect. Rather, I firmly believe on reason and history that, in principle, homeschooling is the most perfect form of education ever devised by the human mind. Homeschooling is private tutoring. Literally. Private tutoring will always be superior to mass classroom instruction. Always. Consider that royalty has always hired private tutors for the little princes and princesses. The upperclass of Europe was training by private tutors -- homeschooled, that is -- for centuries on end. If I remember right, all of the "Founding Fathers" of America were homeschooled; if it's not all, it's most. How many of your Texas public school students can match them for education? Even I sit humbly at their feet! Thomas Edison flunked out of public school and was homeschooled. Abe Lincoln was homeschooled. The spelling bee champs for the last three years have been homeschoolers. Blah blah blah, empirical evidence abounds in support of the superiority of private tutoring over mass classroom instruction, and it always will, because private tutoring is inherently superior. It just is.
That doesn't mean that public schools are always inherently bad. They're not always bad. But it does mean that homeschooling should be permitted. You cannot read your quote above and still tell me that I should desire that my child attend your school: "All of the principals and school boards demand that the curriculum be watered down. At one school you actually had to give the students a copy of any test before you gave it to them. And students still failed."
And this is supposed to make me want to send my child to your school?!
Again, I don't blame the teachers, I blame the supervisors and the principals.
Interesting. Our present system was based upon the German system of the time.
Anything with humans at the wheel is subject to abuse. But, I absolutely deny that in principle homeschooling is imperfect. Rather, I firmly believe on reason and history that, in principle, homeschooling is the most perfect form of education ever devised by the human mind. Homeschooling is private tutoring. Literally. Private tutoring will always be superior to mass classroom instruction. Always. Consider that royalty has always hired private tutors for the little princes and princesses. The upperclass of Europe was training by private tutors -- homeschooled, that is -- for centuries on end. If I remember right, all of the "Founding Fathers" of America were homeschooled; if it's not all, it's most. How many of your Texas public school students can match them for education? Even I sit humbly at their feet! Thomas Edison flunked out of public school and was homeschooled. Abe Lincoln was homeschooled. The spelling bee champs for the last three years have been homeschoolers. Blah blah blah, empirical evidence abounds in support of the superiority of private tutoring over mass classroom instruction, and it always will, because private tutoring is inherently superior. It just is.
That doesn't mean that public schools are always inherently bad. They're not always bad. But it does mean that homeschooling should be permitted. You cannot read your quote above and still tell me that I should desire that my child attend your school: "All of the principals and school boards demand that the curriculum be watered down. At one school you actually had to give the students a copy of any test before you gave it to them. And students still failed."
shelaghone
Member
Right, your 'few exceptions' out of 1.7 million homeschoolers in the US. Since I'm in the crowd you're targeting against, I'd like to point out that the most likely reasoning you have for being against homeschooling has something to do with the fact that that little Johnny "Homeschooler" in 4th grade, knows more than the top students in your class at 7th grade. You keep pinging on your claim that they have poor social skills, but the fact is, that claim was debunct a few years back. The fact is, homeschoolers, by and large, handle themselves better socially.
Sure, they've probably never smoked, or taken drugs, or participated in underage drinking, but one would hope you wouldn't hold that against them, but I guess we're wrong. Sure, they don't succomb to peer pressure so easily, they think on their own, and talk to adults more easily and in a respectful manner, and are able to keep up on topics which don't effect them directly.. I guess that's all bad for us as well.
The problem with your argument against homeschooling, is that it goes against the facts. Yes, there are some idiotic parents who do things wrong, but those aren't in the majority, they aren't even common.
The homeschooling population has been going up by around 17% a year over the past few years, and as the numbers of homeschoolers rise, so also will the level of education, and personal responsibility of children go up.
Sure, they've probably never smoked, or taken drugs, or participated in underage drinking, but one would hope you wouldn't hold that against them, but I guess we're wrong. Sure, they don't succomb to peer pressure so easily, they think on their own, and talk to adults more easily and in a respectful manner, and are able to keep up on topics which don't effect them directly.. I guess that's all bad for us as well.
The problem with your argument against homeschooling, is that it goes against the facts. Yes, there are some idiotic parents who do things wrong, but those aren't in the majority, they aren't even common.
The homeschooling population has been going up by around 17% a year over the past few years, and as the numbers of homeschoolers rise, so also will the level of education, and personal responsibility of children go up.
Show me the stats on college metriculation and I MIGHT back off.
I've looked but I can't find any.
As I have tried and tried to state clearly, any system with NO acountability is rife with corruption. For every exemplary product, there are more who fail. For those of you who are doing so well, I congradulate you. Bully for you, and I mean it. In Texas, there are way too many problems. Period.
And I consider your examples as imperfect. Most went through homeschooling as an only option, not as a choice. They were also self driven. For every great mind of that period, I can produce two hundred idiots. You can't use history as a gauge because history by nature only displays the exceptional. You have to look at the common man (or in this case, average white rich man, as that is your population of choice).
"The problem with your argument against homeschooling, is that it goes against the facts. Yes, there are some idiotic parents who do things wrong, but those aren't in the majority, they aren't even common."
How would you even know? No one knows how many students are homeschooled. Not in Texas, not in the US. No one is required to report that they are homeschooling their child. No one monitors it. No one checks. Where are you stats from? Who did them?
I've looked but I can't find any.
As I have tried and tried to state clearly, any system with NO acountability is rife with corruption. For every exemplary product, there are more who fail. For those of you who are doing so well, I congradulate you. Bully for you, and I mean it. In Texas, there are way too many problems. Period.
And I consider your examples as imperfect. Most went through homeschooling as an only option, not as a choice. They were also self driven. For every great mind of that period, I can produce two hundred idiots. You can't use history as a gauge because history by nature only displays the exceptional. You have to look at the common man (or in this case, average white rich man, as that is your population of choice).
"The problem with your argument against homeschooling, is that it goes against the facts. Yes, there are some idiotic parents who do things wrong, but those aren't in the majority, they aren't even common."
How would you even know? No one knows how many students are homeschooled. Not in Texas, not in the US. No one is required to report that they are homeschooling their child. No one monitors it. No one checks. Where are you stats from? Who did them?
Just look up census reports. You can find most stuff regarding numbers, and population habits from them, granted, they are not perfect, but they work.
For every idiot homeschooler you find, I can find 200 public schoolerts that are worse. As far as the 'corruption goes, comingf from a public school stand-point what you're say is like the pot calling the kettle black. Except, it's not quite the same, it would be more accurate in comparison to a serial killer calling his jury, murderers.
For every idiot homeschooler you find, I can find 200 public schoolerts that are worse. As far as the 'corruption goes, comingf from a public school stand-point what you're say is like the pot calling the kettle black. Except, it's not quite the same, it would be more accurate in comparison to a serial killer calling his jury, murderers.
And yet none of you have addressed the central problem. There is absolutely no governing body, even a self governing body would be nice.
If I were to stand in front of my class and declare that the world was flat and the proof of this is the fact that you can visit Australia and you aren't hanging upside down by your toes and that the reason some people have darker skin then others is because they are sinners and God hates them, someone would come into an office and I would no longer be a teacher. Yet there is no such check for homeschoolers.
There are larger cities who can pool some homeschoolers into classes that actually go through at least some of the practical aspects of science and that's good. I commend them. But the majority of people do not have access to that. How are homeschoolers supposed to learn labs and do them? 90% of science is hard evidence. Learn the theory all you want, its not nailed home in a student's mind until you actually do it.
If I were to stand in front of my class and declare that the world was flat and the proof of this is the fact that you can visit Australia and you aren't hanging upside down by your toes and that the reason some people have darker skin then others is because they are sinners and God hates them, someone would come into an office and I would no longer be a teacher. Yet there is no such check for homeschoolers.
There are larger cities who can pool some homeschoolers into classes that actually go through at least some of the practical aspects of science and that's good. I commend them. But the majority of people do not have access to that. How are homeschoolers supposed to learn labs and do them? 90% of science is hard evidence. Learn the theory all you want, its not nailed home in a student's mind until you actually do it.
Maybe, but I'd just like to point out - and I'm not trying to criticize anything - that the few homeschooled kids I've known were real oddballs. And this is coming from a guy who never once tried to be cool in his life (although sometimes, unwittingly succeeding ). (edit: one of them had some serious BO, too, but that's a separate issue).
Of course, where I lived, there was really no reason to be home schooled, either. We had the best public school system in the nation about 6 years back, according to some national survey, and what at the time was the most expensive highschool in the country.
Just curious, what do universities think of home schooled students? Do they usually end up spending a year or two at junior college before going on to a regular college/university?
Of course, where I lived, there was really no reason to be home schooled, either. We had the best public school system in the nation about 6 years back, according to some national survey, and what at the time was the most expensive highschool in the country.
Just curious, what do universities think of home schooled students? Do they usually end up spending a year or two at junior college before going on to a regular college/university?
Ok - given that angular momentum eigenstates in the hydrogen atom are also parity eigenstates, and that the dipole operator is qr, where r is position and q is charge, what is the expectation value of the electric dipole of a momentum eigenstate?
Just kidding, but if you can answer it correctly, I'd be impressed. Actually, you don't even need to know any science to answer it, just algebra.
Just kidding, but if you can answer it correctly, I'd be impressed. Actually, you don't even need to know any science to answer it, just algebra.
[whoosh] Amiga, your argument goes right over my head. I am completely missing your point. Run it by me again, slowly please. We have a governing body governing public schools, right? (Please say "right.") And the governing body sucks, right? (You strongly criticized the body in an earlier post.) And the product of this governing body, the public school children, is poor, right? (You said that students are not being educated.) Sooooooo, I fail to see why I should want a governing body governing the education of my child. [Wooosh] Your point is going right over my head. I'm sorry. I'm just not following you.
SAT scores? We're kicking your butt and you know it!
Would you consider mathematics a science? If not, would you at least say that math is “hard facts”? Certainly you have seen the results of international math exams for the past many years. The United States is always at the bottom. American public school children suck at math.
Let’s forget math. I’m still confused by your argument. It’s going right over my head. Chemistry is a science, right? Cooking is chemistry. You can’t deny that. Cooking is the mixing of this, that, and the other, and applying heat. A homeschooler has the opportunity to learn far more cooking than the public school child. Cooking involves elementary math, too. Weigh this, measure that, add fractions, multiply fractions. It’s great for the lower grades. Throw in one of those boxed chemistry sets available in every mall (and by mail-order catalog, too) and you’ve got, in total, at least as much chemistry as the public school teaches.
How about botany? Is botany a science to you? A homeschooler has the opportunity to learn far more botany than a public school student. Grow a garden, study neighborhood plants, go on field trips to see botanical gardens and regional plants.
Gardens have bugs. The homeschool child learns about biology. Last year and again this year we caught caterpillars and watched them turn into butterflies. My girl checked out and read every library book on caterpillars, butterflies, rolly-polly bugs, and lady bugs. The latter two live in our backyard. We’ve got scores of them. We caught a few and watched them up close. We put out a hummingbird feeder and watch hummingbirds fly around the plants in our yard. That’s at least as much biology as your public school students are getting. We have other birds in our yards too, the kind that sings. They sing to us all day long. We hear them loud and clear through the chimney. Birds don’t sing at public schools. My girl has a far greater opportunity to learn about regional birds and bugs than any student in your public school biology class.
How about geology? Is geology a science to you? A homeschooler has the opportunity to become a rock hound, and otherwise learn far more about geology than a public school student. The homeschooler can go on field trips around the state or county or whatever region, and study more rocks and more dirt layers than any public school student ever did in his public school class.
How about astronomy? Is that a science to you? How often does a public school class go outside and look through a telescope at the moon and stars? Probably never! The homeschool “class,” so to speak, can begin after dark and thereby teach more practical astronomy than what a student gets in a public school setting.
How about metallurgy? Is that a science? I know a teenage homeschooler who made his own “medieval” swords and daggers. Have your public school students ever done that?
Blah blah blah, there need be no loss of learning when you have private tutoring.
SAT scores? We're kicking your butt and you know it!
Would you consider mathematics a science? If not, would you at least say that math is “hard facts”? Certainly you have seen the results of international math exams for the past many years. The United States is always at the bottom. American public school children suck at math.
Let’s forget math. I’m still confused by your argument. It’s going right over my head. Chemistry is a science, right? Cooking is chemistry. You can’t deny that. Cooking is the mixing of this, that, and the other, and applying heat. A homeschooler has the opportunity to learn far more cooking than the public school child. Cooking involves elementary math, too. Weigh this, measure that, add fractions, multiply fractions. It’s great for the lower grades. Throw in one of those boxed chemistry sets available in every mall (and by mail-order catalog, too) and you’ve got, in total, at least as much chemistry as the public school teaches.
How about botany? Is botany a science to you? A homeschooler has the opportunity to learn far more botany than a public school student. Grow a garden, study neighborhood plants, go on field trips to see botanical gardens and regional plants.
Gardens have bugs. The homeschool child learns about biology. Last year and again this year we caught caterpillars and watched them turn into butterflies. My girl checked out and read every library book on caterpillars, butterflies, rolly-polly bugs, and lady bugs. The latter two live in our backyard. We’ve got scores of them. We caught a few and watched them up close. We put out a hummingbird feeder and watch hummingbirds fly around the plants in our yard. That’s at least as much biology as your public school students are getting. We have other birds in our yards too, the kind that sings. They sing to us all day long. We hear them loud and clear through the chimney. Birds don’t sing at public schools. My girl has a far greater opportunity to learn about regional birds and bugs than any student in your public school biology class.
How about geology? Is geology a science to you? A homeschooler has the opportunity to become a rock hound, and otherwise learn far more about geology than a public school student. The homeschooler can go on field trips around the state or county or whatever region, and study more rocks and more dirt layers than any public school student ever did in his public school class.
How about astronomy? Is that a science to you? How often does a public school class go outside and look through a telescope at the moon and stars? Probably never! The homeschool “class,” so to speak, can begin after dark and thereby teach more practical astronomy than what a student gets in a public school setting.
How about metallurgy? Is that a science? I know a teenage homeschooler who made his own “medieval” swords and daggers. Have your public school students ever done that?
Blah blah blah, there need be no loss of learning when you have private tutoring.
Thatcooldude77
New member
I think Wyrdolphin actually makes a pretty good point here. First of all, math isn't science. Science is empirical and math isn't. There's a lot of science you can't do without doing experiments. This may not be a huge issue at the gradeschool level, but what about at the highschool level? Where do homeschoolers even learn this kind of science? I wouldn't be able to teach higschool chemistry nearly as well as my highschool chemistry teacher, and I doubt most parents would be able to either. I'm barely even remember my chemistry (and that goes for my college chemistry, too).
As for the performance of public schools, there are a lot of really bad areas that really drag down the scores of other schools. Illinois always outperforms the national average, and the schools in my area always well outperformed the state average. The schools where you live might not be quite as bad as averages would indicate.
What happens when it comes time to study chemistry that goes beyond cooking, though, like highschool chemistry? What are you going to do when you need to create specific chemical reactions and learn good laboratory procedures?
How much time should be devoted to visiting botanical gardens, though? A field trip like that in graofftopicr school was usually considered a day of relaxation and fun, and even at that, we always had a small assignment to complete.
Well, we didn't specifically have biology before highschool, but again, what will you do when it comes time to learn about triglycerides, fatty acids, and DNA recombination? Biology was taught freshman year at my highschool, so I don't remember a huge amount of it, but from what I remember, it's beyond the ability of most parents to teach. I don't remember the labs extremely well, but I doubt most households have all of the equipment either.
Well, I'll admit we never learned anything about geology after graofftopicr school, but again, how much time should be devoted to this? Is this really going to prepare the student for college, or even highschool? My cousin has a PhD in geology, and it actually sort of started unintentionally when he got his bachelors in chemistry and realized with a few extra classes, he could add a degree in geology. This indicates to me, at least, that in the long term, studying chemistry, and properties of media, like birefringence, are better if your interested in geology than just studying rocks.
And if a kid is interested in astronomy, he can get a tellescope and study it on his own, as at least one of my friends did (who now is also a physics major, but infinitely cooler than me).
Once again, is this really the best use of his time? In my highschool, something like that would more likely have been done in an art or shop class than a science class. I can't see it being all that usefull for college. I'm sure the kid had fun making the weapons, but that's not really the point, is it? It might be better as a hobby than part of class time.
Even in the humanities, isn't there something to be gained from, say the discussion of literature with peers, or the insight of a teacher who really knows the work well, or even a class structure that's based on preparing kids either for college classes or exams to get out of taking the college classes?
As for the performance of public schools, there are a lot of really bad areas that really drag down the scores of other schools. Illinois always outperforms the national average, and the schools in my area always well outperformed the state average. The schools where you live might not be quite as bad as averages would indicate.
What happens when it comes time to study chemistry that goes beyond cooking, though, like highschool chemistry? What are you going to do when you need to create specific chemical reactions and learn good laboratory procedures?
How much time should be devoted to visiting botanical gardens, though? A field trip like that in graofftopicr school was usually considered a day of relaxation and fun, and even at that, we always had a small assignment to complete.
Well, we didn't specifically have biology before highschool, but again, what will you do when it comes time to learn about triglycerides, fatty acids, and DNA recombination? Biology was taught freshman year at my highschool, so I don't remember a huge amount of it, but from what I remember, it's beyond the ability of most parents to teach. I don't remember the labs extremely well, but I doubt most households have all of the equipment either.
Well, I'll admit we never learned anything about geology after graofftopicr school, but again, how much time should be devoted to this? Is this really going to prepare the student for college, or even highschool? My cousin has a PhD in geology, and it actually sort of started unintentionally when he got his bachelors in chemistry and realized with a few extra classes, he could add a degree in geology. This indicates to me, at least, that in the long term, studying chemistry, and properties of media, like birefringence, are better if your interested in geology than just studying rocks.
And if a kid is interested in astronomy, he can get a tellescope and study it on his own, as at least one of my friends did (who now is also a physics major, but infinitely cooler than me).
Once again, is this really the best use of his time? In my highschool, something like that would more likely have been done in an art or shop class than a science class. I can't see it being all that usefull for college. I'm sure the kid had fun making the weapons, but that's not really the point, is it? It might be better as a hobby than part of class time.
Even in the humanities, isn't there something to be gained from, say the discussion of literature with peers, or the insight of a teacher who really knows the work well, or even a class structure that's based on preparing kids either for college classes or exams to get out of taking the college classes?
Heh heh heh! You didn't learn science in your public school!
As to the final question -- dude, it's science. How much time should be devoted to science?
Oh, all that stuff that you did not learn? Heh heh heh! Maybe you should ask the people who designed the curriculum under which you didn't retain the "learning" of science.
It's science. How much time should be devoted to science?
Just as well as whatever it was that you didn't learn, prepared you for the next level.
I can't believe you just said that LEARNING is not the best use of school time. I'm out of college. I worked for a defense contractor surrounded by science geeks. You're not out of college, but you're a science major, right? When you're out of college and interacting with co-workers at some science-type company, you'll better appreciate a broad education.
As to the first, yes, and it's not necessarily absent in a homeschool environment. As to the second, I am baffled by your statement. Public high schools have non-college tracks designed with the specific purpose of not preparing students for college. Somehow that's acceptable to you but the idea of homeschooling is not acceptable to you?
As to the final question -- dude, it's science. How much time should be devoted to science?
Oh, all that stuff that you did not learn? Heh heh heh! Maybe you should ask the people who designed the curriculum under which you didn't retain the "learning" of science.
It's science. How much time should be devoted to science?
Just as well as whatever it was that you didn't learn, prepared you for the next level.
I can't believe you just said that LEARNING is not the best use of school time. I'm out of college. I worked for a defense contractor surrounded by science geeks. You're not out of college, but you're a science major, right? When you're out of college and interacting with co-workers at some science-type company, you'll better appreciate a broad education.
As to the first, yes, and it's not necessarily absent in a homeschool environment. As to the second, I am baffled by your statement. Public high schools have non-college tracks designed with the specific purpose of not preparing students for college. Somehow that's acceptable to you but the idea of homeschooling is not acceptable to you?
mikegagliano
New member
I was going to respond, but Aiki took much of what I wanted to say.
The average highschooler's knowledge of geography is astoundingly pathetic. I was talking to an 'honors' student - who was graduating a year early at the top of her class - about Tasmania, and she thought it was somewhere in the state of Georgia! When I started laughing at that, she then came back with the excuse "Well, I've never really looked at map of Georgia". Once I managed to stop laughing, I explained to her where in Georgia Tasmania is.
Since, I've talked to a lot of people about Tasmania (I'm planning a trip there next January), you'd be shocked to know how many people honestly didn't even know it was a place.
Other things I gained from homeschooling... I can converse with most people on most any subject and keep up, or even stay a bit ahead depending on a subject, there's not one which I'm nigh totally ignorant (unless you include modern 'televised' entertainment, mostly worthless celebrities, and other folks of that nature.. I believe in living my own life, and think they should live theirs)
How many highschool students can recite the 50 states and their state capitals? How many know all the Presidents of the United States? How many of them even know who their local representative, or senator is?
If a parent's main reasoning to pull a child out of schools is to teach them religion and morals(including teaching Creation), cool, but they're getting all the other benefits as well as accomplishing what they set out to do.
The average highschooler's knowledge of geography is astoundingly pathetic. I was talking to an 'honors' student - who was graduating a year early at the top of her class - about Tasmania, and she thought it was somewhere in the state of Georgia! When I started laughing at that, she then came back with the excuse "Well, I've never really looked at map of Georgia". Once I managed to stop laughing, I explained to her where in Georgia Tasmania is.
Since, I've talked to a lot of people about Tasmania (I'm planning a trip there next January), you'd be shocked to know how many people honestly didn't even know it was a place.
Other things I gained from homeschooling... I can converse with most people on most any subject and keep up, or even stay a bit ahead depending on a subject, there's not one which I'm nigh totally ignorant (unless you include modern 'televised' entertainment, mostly worthless celebrities, and other folks of that nature.. I believe in living my own life, and think they should live theirs)
How many highschool students can recite the 50 states and their state capitals? How many know all the Presidents of the United States? How many of them even know who their local representative, or senator is?
If a parent's main reasoning to pull a child out of schools is to teach them religion and morals(including teaching Creation), cool, but they're getting all the other benefits as well as accomplishing what they set out to do.
Justmyinput
New member
Sure, I did. I learned physics really well, but that's because I was interested in it and took two years of it in highschool. Chemistry and bio I could care less about. I'll bet I still remember more about chemistry that most people on this forum, though (because the last time I had it was a year ago, as opposed to six for bio). I have to admit, though, I only know a fraction of what I learned about chem and bio.
BTW, much of the intro level chemistry stuff is an incomplete description that my knowledge of physics has supplanted. For example, I have no need to remember anything about VSEPR anymore, because that's mainly for people who don't understand the radial 3 dimensional schrodinger equation and who can't make corrections based on relativity and magnetic fields. And my knowledge of thermodynamics is much better than whatever we were taught in chemistry about ideal gasses and chemical potentials. In Chemistry, we learned a lot about approximations that I don't need to make anymore. It would take me longer to derive answers for those specific scenarios, so I wouldn't do as well on a test about them as a chem student.
Should I really remember a class that I took six years ago and have never needed to use since? Because that's what bio is for me. It was interesting at the time, though.
I could certainly do more than well enough at either bio or chemistry, though, to get every question right on some kind of state achievement test, even though it's only a fraction of what I was taught.
BTW, this is also the same highschool where I learned three semesters of calculus before starting college.
Lots, but IMO, only the four fundimentals, physics, chemistry, biology and geology. Even at that, I think Geology somewhat unnecessarry.
My physics education prepared me extremely well for college. It put me three semesters ahead.
Actually, I hope to do research at a university (going to get my PhD). But that's beside the point. You don't need to spend school time learning about *mideival weapons*. That's something you do as a hobby, or maybe spend one semester doing while you goof off in an art class.
How many of these schools are there, and where are they located? I know in the past, they used to have technical highschools which would actually prepare students for careers (like Lane Tech, which my great uncle went to),
but I think those are a dying breed. Any highschool that purposely tries to not prepare students for college is probably one of the poorest schools in the inner city, or is in the south.
BTW, much of the intro level chemistry stuff is an incomplete description that my knowledge of physics has supplanted. For example, I have no need to remember anything about VSEPR anymore, because that's mainly for people who don't understand the radial 3 dimensional schrodinger equation and who can't make corrections based on relativity and magnetic fields. And my knowledge of thermodynamics is much better than whatever we were taught in chemistry about ideal gasses and chemical potentials. In Chemistry, we learned a lot about approximations that I don't need to make anymore. It would take me longer to derive answers for those specific scenarios, so I wouldn't do as well on a test about them as a chem student.
Should I really remember a class that I took six years ago and have never needed to use since? Because that's what bio is for me. It was interesting at the time, though.
I could certainly do more than well enough at either bio or chemistry, though, to get every question right on some kind of state achievement test, even though it's only a fraction of what I was taught.
BTW, this is also the same highschool where I learned three semesters of calculus before starting college.
Lots, but IMO, only the four fundimentals, physics, chemistry, biology and geology. Even at that, I think Geology somewhat unnecessarry.
My physics education prepared me extremely well for college. It put me three semesters ahead.
Actually, I hope to do research at a university (going to get my PhD). But that's beside the point. You don't need to spend school time learning about *mideival weapons*. That's something you do as a hobby, or maybe spend one semester doing while you goof off in an art class.
How many of these schools are there, and where are they located? I know in the past, they used to have technical highschools which would actually prepare students for careers (like Lane Tech, which my great uncle went to),
but I think those are a dying breed. Any highschool that purposely tries to not prepare students for college is probably one of the poorest schools in the inner city, or is in the south.
AlexisInfectious®
Active member
homeschooling is a horrific idea in my opinion {unless you and your wife are teachers}still, a kid dosen't get enough exposure to the world, polls have shown 90% of the socialization process happens at school. try meeting the opposite sex from a homeschool enviroment, let alone getting laid. drama and other essential things come out of school the kids need to be able to handle what ever is thrown their way and it seems that homeschooling shields them far too much weather or not you guys believe it, i hear people tell me "well public school is bad" so send the kid to a private school if you think your kid is anything more than the normal run of the mill worthless human.
but homeschooling seems a little excessive to me. i have 4 friends who are home schooled, only one of which is a good example of it, come to think of it, they too are strongly religious, {mussilum}. in the long run, i think it does more harm than good, i'd bet most people force feed the religious stuff down their kids throats {all homeschooled kids} and without going to school they won't learn about opposing view points and good arguments as to why there is or isn't a god or anything about other religions, so allowing the child to form its own opinions are out of the questions, just read it again, aikimac has a daughter, not an "it" i would want my child to have an open mind and know enough and hear enough from other people to have her own view point and make up her mind on what ever topic religion, ethics, politics. ect.
interesting FACT: 92% of the population isn't naturally "good" at anything, let alone something useful. from my experiances people who home school the children expect phsyco ass demands and force their failures on the kids to make up for it. i believe kids should go to public school and experiance a good, normal, healthy life just like all the other kids.
but homeschooling seems a little excessive to me. i have 4 friends who are home schooled, only one of which is a good example of it, come to think of it, they too are strongly religious, {mussilum}. in the long run, i think it does more harm than good, i'd bet most people force feed the religious stuff down their kids throats {all homeschooled kids} and without going to school they won't learn about opposing view points and good arguments as to why there is or isn't a god or anything about other religions, so allowing the child to form its own opinions are out of the questions, just read it again, aikimac has a daughter, not an "it" i would want my child to have an open mind and know enough and hear enough from other people to have her own view point and make up her mind on what ever topic religion, ethics, politics. ect.
interesting FACT: 92% of the population isn't naturally "good" at anything, let alone something useful. from my experiances people who home school the children expect phsyco ass demands and force their failures on the kids to make up for it. i believe kids should go to public school and experiance a good, normal, healthy life just like all the other kids.