Tottenham Riots

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black_rose_325

New member
I have other things to do in life beyond social research to get exact 'facts', but that doesn't mean I don't take an interest in the matters of today.

The Beeb are not perfect but do a reasonable job, the tabloids do spew out dross. The broadsheets vary in what they produce. Newspapers are there to sell newspapers, the Beeb is there to serve the public interest. Fox is there to fund Donald Trump's hair ointment fund.

From time to time in the 1980s I lived in London and Bristol (very near to St. Pauls.) I wasn't there during riot times, but I know what life was like then.

My impression (which is only that) is that this time round is a bit different. Back then trouble was largely isolated to deprived areas and there was a sense of injustice.

Now, its more down to thuggery, gang-ship (or whatever you call such stuff) and they are taking it upon themselves to seek pickings in better off areas.

I dont live in Chapeltown, so I cannot validly comment on it the way Zaad does - there aren't factual references to quote with - so one has to make some kind of interpretation - it does not seem as our interpretations are the same - but we are all entitled to our own interpretation.
 
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aryen

Member
Without Governments who would maintain our roads?
Without Governments who would police the streets?

Anarchy is a dream. If we woke up tomorrow to anarchy, in a months time we'd have an unofficial leadership council, in a years time an unofficial government and in 50 years we'd be back where we started.
 
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SergioL

Member
Don't get me wrong, i think they should clear the scum off the streets with flamethrowers, BUT:
I'm getting fed up of the older generation, especially the upper middle class, dismissing the whole thing as a tantrum, and down to 'celebrity culture' and 'irresponsible parenting'. I think when london is being burnt by thugs, we have a bigger problem than that.
 
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m11cody

New member
In which case you shouldn't be relaying your suppositions - if you can't find the time to do a little research and make proper comparisons, don't make any.



They do a reasonable job, I'll grant you that, but they are still sensationalist. As to serving the public interest that's their charter, but which public interest exactly?



Yep - there is something seriously wrong somewhere. Despite that it's important not to try and incite panic by overblowing the situation. If people start panicking things will only get worse. I'd rather have people underestimate and stay calm, and go out to pick up the pieces again and again, than have them overestimate the danger, panic, and there be no pieces to pick up.



I doubt celebrity culture has much to do with it - though bad parenting is likely to be at least an influence. I suspect that it's much more to do with the sickeningly overdeveloped sense of entitlement that a small minority have - the same thing that means they feel they are 'owed' benefits and have a right to other people's work for no payment.
 
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tata

Member
Thats the difference between us, and I completely accept your stance - this is just a public forum for yack - it most definately is not primetime TV - although our Trolls might yet replace Eastenders e.g. thefiercehadou

The Beeb serves the 'public good' - because its somewhere in their charter - rightly, wrongly, twistedly, otherwise. They most definately are not pefect, but the quality of the Beeb's impartiality is generally accepted as better than anyone elses - maybe we can get some American comment on this. I remember folk in Holland being very impressed with Jeremy PAxman, because no Dutch journalists were as probing.

You should see the banality of European TV, then you may not think so low of the Beeb. We may struggle in years to afford the funding to the Beeb, so maybe its best to appreciate it while its around?
 
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Dafydd

Member
Looks like Knightsbridge, Sloane Square and Kings Road are next according to twitter and private sources.

I'm one minute away from Sloane Square.
 
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ethomasphoto

New member
To be fair, Anarchy has never really established itself in a formalised way that we can label like Communism or Capatilism - which have been clear distinct landmarks in our history.

I dont see Anarchy as an answer, but our current Political classes do seem to be lacking in being able to manage our society for the times that we live in.

Alternatives? Dont have any right now, but democracy is basically a good thing and we should recognise that.
 
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Mzohio

New member
embra said:
Thats the difference between us, and I completely accept your stance - this is just a public forum for yack - it most definately is not primetime TV - although our Trolls might yet replace Eastenders e.g. thefiercehadou



Sadly the investigate journalism (the little that's still done) is provided by the same people who fund Jeremy Clarkson, a man who has advocated the killing of cyclists. That's why I doubt the whole public good argument - among examples.



I suppose I'm being a little unfair here - since I don't fund the Beeb I should probably not comment too much on their practices. Much (even the majority) of their programming appears to be aimed more at the LCD than any public good.
Click to expand...
 
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happyt

New member
I've got guys working at Kings Cross Station tonight. I am surprised that someone has not called off the work for safety reasons.
 
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TheDuke

Member
Clarkson is a Twonk who encourages the worst of behaviour in people, so Im with you there.

You, me and all other UK posters on this forum do fund the Beeb, as we are all UK Tax payers.

The problem is who is going to do a better job? - I know I wont - but I will try to exchange some ideas/comments with folk here and some other sources.

For what its worth, amongst newspapers that I read are Guardian, Telegraph (Torygraph - I like to get balanced opinion), Financial Times, Independant. I don't read the Times 'cos Im too skint to pay for it.

To get real-time news we dont have many other choices.

For instance, if the newspapers and the Beeb didnt inform us about really serious matters like Japanese tsunami, the demise of the Euro and Dollar - how else would we know about them? I cant quote factually whats going on in Japan. I can interpret the money markets (to some extent) as I work in Finance from time to time.

The civil disturbance of last night and the past few days are not as significant as the world economy or the Japanese Tsunami. Where the curent UK events could be significant is if the Police/Justice and Prison system fails to deal with these mindless thugs - then I would be very concerned that the fabric of society is breaking down, however slowly - we have to find ways of pulling together as a society.
 
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emmyxcaroline

New member
They haven't done a very good job of that over the past three days.

Not really inspired with confidence over the capabilities of the Met as of late.

I'm not knocking their courage or commitment, just their capabilities.
 
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marcellinus_max

New member
Trying to bring a spot of balance to the thread Steve, the initial events in Tottenham, Enfield and Hackney; and later East Ham, Peckham, Croydon; are not areas that are high profile, so their Policing priority is low, and events took their course of flow, one way or another.

What is more disturbing (in my view) is the attacks and robbery in Notting Hill and Ealing. This time round the Police are aware of whats afoot and what they are dealing with.

Stay safe Steve. When all is over and Im next in Chelsea, I'll pop in for a drink or 2.
 
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Sprinter

Member
I fund the BBC World Service, not the domestic section. Once they make the funding changes I won't even be funding the World Service (a shame, as I think they do a much better job than the domestic stations).



The Register, The Onion and Newsthump of course.



I prefer to wait for interesting stories being discussed, and then work from there with my own research (limited though it may be). Incidentally for interesting articles I found this one quite striking London's burning.



As much as I hate to say it, social media's a good place to get news of basic events - try to avoid taking on board the opinions as much as possible though.



Didn't news of the tsunami hit on twitter before the papers and Beeb got to it, or am I imagining things? Anything's possible.



Witch hunts always promote good community cohesion. I suspect looter hunts and trials could work the same way.
 
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chocolatebee

Member
How much trouble was there in Chapeltown Zaad? I keep hearing contradictory stories.

Harehills was as peaceful as usual - apart from a police helicopter droning overhead all night.
 
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courtnut

New member
Social Networks, Forums, twitter Feeds and so-on are good sources - but those writing - like me now - are not (normally) trained in Journalism, codes of conduct and other matters.

The Register is a good source, but I havent read it for a while.
 
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Jonno

Member
You live in harehills??!!?!?
cool! so close! i could have trained with you over summer!

basically just a helicopter flying around at night.
there was usual delinquent kid activity like them setting stuff on fire, getting into fights, big gatherings, etc, but the main difference has been that it was on the main road not the back streets as it usually is with chapeltown.
the police took precautions and nothing has happened.
theyll move towards town if anything but i dont think itll happen because the police are quite prepared for it now.
 
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pinkstuff510

New member
there has never been a fully formalized communist state as defined by Marx, the same could be said of capitalism (that there is no real formula we could define it with) there are just as many (some times opposing) sub ideologies within those two political schools of thought as there are within anarchism. trying to attach a one stop formula to an ideology is never a good idea, language tends to get butchered when it comes to politics words take on new meanings all the time, it usually isnt long before things get convoluted if you try and do that.
 
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