Women in the Infantry

Sure you might be all right with them. But then again you're not an 18 year old private. Think of all the stupid private things you've heard of and of course some of them make absolutely no sense whatsoever. But that's why they're privates. Sure with proper guidance fraternization can become a minor issue but you know just as well as I do that being in combat arms you also have a lot more responsibility heaped on your shoulders. The two supply clerks sneaking off behind the quad-cons to diddle each other is a different story than two people supposedly on guard who are now watching each others' "private sectors".

During OIF I during the initial push to Baghdad... despite over five weeks without a proper shower... there was hanky panky going on among some of the ranks in nearby camps that I caught wind of. Now honestly that turns my stomach as you can only imagine how that whole ordeal smelled after several weeks of baby wipe showers but it obviously didn't stop others.

If a female can meet the same standards as a male then I don't have much issue with it. It is going to be very difficult in both the short term and the long term though and I honestly don't see it having much success.
 
OP your ignorance of the Corps is embarrassing. You actually have a few points that I might agree with but you lace them with disrespect.

If you were before me talking that smack you'd be standing tall for a serious butt chewing.
 
I've only read trash talking on this thread. There are some good points in here that are lost to all of the bravado.
 
I've seen no "bravado" on here except your own. If you have any problems with points in this thread, it would be best to address them civilly. You'll get a much better conversation that way.
 
You know, the whole 18 year old private thing is something I wasn't really exposed to during my time in. I went in a little later in life then right out of school and during the winter time. This resulted in me going through the whole starting phase with people who were a few years older then the normal recruit. When I got in the fleet though I had to deal with the iofftopicturity and disgusting leadership habits of a bunch of guys who had came in at 18. The guys did absolutely nothing on any of their deployments and acted like they had been through the initial push. I got in some trouble a couple times not keeping my mouth shut and telling them how much they sucked when I was a boot. I can definitely see your point and I definitely have experience in dealing with it in different situations, and again I think it touches on what's expected of youth today before they join up and the gender roles imposed upon them.

I don't think the problem with integrating females into the infantry with males is in the military. I think it's with the civilian world and the imposed gender roles, views on sexuality, and what's expected of younger people. The military can definitely shove a different culture and expectation down recruits throats if things get changed up but until the civilian world changes the way it operates as far as gender expectation . . . . there will not be any lack of problems that will result in court martial, NJPs, and disciplinary actions. Cost and benefit vs. cost to solve problems and and harm to the individual and hole represented in epic fashion. This all ties in to politics using the military as a testing ground and since we're still in wartime . . . it should probably be saved for later.

We are winding our way towards peace time though (hopefully), so although the push for female integration into the infantry is probably a little premature currently it may end up being tested and solved at a good time in the next few years.
 
How exactly was he ignorant and disrespectful? I actually thought it was a pretty well put together and respectful way to present a touchy subject.
 
I don't have the time to filter & quote everything that I caught on this thread as I'm typing this on my phone but any Marine who has been in recently knows that the statements made in this thread is walking a serious tight rope. Trust me, I agree with 80% of the comments, it's how it is presented.
 
I saw that you were a Gunny and I also saw how you talked about MCMAP in your introduction and the general air of pride you hold about yourself.

That said, I live a lot by this quote "if it's worth fighting for, it's worth dying for . . . and there's not a whole lot worth dying for."

With that I can tell you from my experiences that with some of the absolutely disgusting, foul, immoral leadership of many people that climb their way through the military to leadership positions by playing the system or off of other people's backs and not doing anything to really stand out from anybody else but by keeping somewhat of a clean record, well . . . . what I want to say is against ToS. I can tell you if given the chance in my life to fight against individuals who are put into a position of power in the military and abuse it (which is so, so common), with their feeling of superiority due to the backing of other people just like them or the military system . . . that I would most certainly put my life on the line to crush them. It's unfair to you but I am most certainly inclined to believe you are absolutely the kind of person I despise due to your rank.

I don't care about your pride and I have no pride except for what my brothers and I accomplished. Your Marine Corps is probably not the Marine Corps I was in. If I were standing in front of you and you wanted to give me a butt chewing about anything and not respect me like a man (which is so common for people in staff and officer ranks) and talk things out then you would have another thing coming to you buddy. I don't have to abide by military standards anymore in addressing rank and it's disgusting that you would actually present an attitude of authority on an internet forum.

Very few things that I read or experience make me physically shake with anger and I can tell you, your responses and knowing the type of person I'm probably exchanging discussion with are causing me to tremble with how much hate I have locked up.
 
Wow, you need to get help about that anger issue of yours. One, I never brought up my background or rank in this thread. Per the forum rules, I introduced myself in a different thread.

Your attitude speaks volumes about your character. And you're wrong, you still fall under the UCMJ while you are enrolled in the IAR.
 
It will be interesting to see Ero. I'm actually hanging up the old hat here this month and officially getting out of the military after quite a few years. Will I stay out? Who knows. Said that last time when I got out and came right back in within a year. When re-enlistment time came I dragged my feet as I didn't think I wanted to but then there I was raising the hand again. Now I'll only be on the outside looking in this time.
 
I'm sorry but what you post in one thread can carry over into another. For instance my inappropriate posting in the thread about Bicyclists can be commented on in another thread about my character and moral standards if need be. If somebody introduces themselves as a KKK or New Black Panther Party member and their comments in a thread dealing with TMA show a form of bias towards the lineage of that style, then it's entirely appropriate for somebody to let a fellow member be aware of their own bias towards their post. I left you the option of claiming you're not the type of person I described as well as openly telling you about my bias. If I'm against ToS in bringing it up I'm sure a MOD will let me know. Your experience in the Marine Corps as well as your position is entirely relevant.

As far as getting help, trust me it's in the process. You're not exactly ok upstairs when you sit in a room staring at the wall and snap out of it realizing you're been doing that for hours on end, or when you go on a forum just to distract yourself for hours and hours a day because you're so angry, and I can tell you my issues are most certainly not from combat experiences but with inferior, pathetic, harmful, superiority complex driven incompetent leadership that I've seen ruin lives by getting people killed or driving them into alcoholism or destroying mental well-being. You would be surprised by consolers reactions when I tell them my problems because it's generally, "this isn't an uncommon issue."

As far as my attitude . . . whatever dude. I was in for four years, been meritoriously promoted twice, reached SGT. in 4 (only reason I didn't in 3 was because I didn't do MCIs) and reached the pinnacle of USMC Infantry being a Scout Sniper. Even as a boot I was alway given responsibility and after a year and a half never held anything outside of a leadership billet until I went into a sniper platoon which requires schooling and a whole lot of experience to effectively lead. I love how you make assumption about my character because I don't have respect for 'higher ups' because of a lot of the bull my brothers and I had to deal with, and how foul and unnecessary most of it was.
 
I'm sorry but the only one beating on their chest in this thread is you. YOU brought up my background not me. You alluded to my rank as if I brought it out in this thread as a means to impose my will upon you; which I did not.

So, let's get right to it. You comment on this issue as if you have some authority, well, how much experience do you have working wih females? How much experience do YOU have working in a diverse environment? Who do you have the experience to make absolutes on the training & abilities of female Marines vs their male counter parts.
 
I'm not beating my chest about anything. I've clearly stated everything is my opinion based on my own experiences and that is it. I do not claim any authority and I'm pretty sure I've made that clear. Everything I've said is most certainly just my opinion and I do not wish to come off any other way. The only thing that may have been 'chest beating' is my track record during my service after what I considered a personal attack on my character based on your own assumptions. That has not been present in the entirety of the thread. I also do not leave one liners that have an air of authority and explain myself when I make an assertion.

That said, answering your questions in the second paragraph is pretty irrelevant isn't it? I would take that more as baiting to try and get me to 'chest beat' more then anything. I could probably ask you the exact same questions as well, and if you answered with knowledge then I could probably confidently tell you that you don't have experience with the infantry.
 
Trust me, I hear you. But as a Marine, I can read between the lines of his comments. I've worked with the Air Force, Army, Navy & Coast Guard & I've never let any Marine in my presence bad mouth those other services. Additionally, I've worked around Black, White, Red, Yellow & Brown & I've viewed everyone as equals.

The OP has presented his opinion as a means to belittle our females at arms. I'm not about that. If he has facts that he can back up, I'm willing to listen. So far he has provided none.
 
You're dodging...

I tell you what, you can PM me your info & I'll pull your 3270 & we can see WHO has the experience & WHO does not. Who has really been there & done that & who likes to beat on their chest over the Internet.
 
I agree and thank you for the reality check. Time to swing by the boxing gym and just say hello to people. Due to the personal nature of where this is all going and my own problems I'm going to have to dig deep to violate MAP standards of discussion but I would like for this thread to continue and don't want to contribute any further to the possibility of a thread closure. I'm sure I'm already being discussed for a sin bin anyways due to inappropriate posting in another thread and I don't need to add anymore fuel to the fire.

If anyone feels I have been sexist or biased in any content stating my opinion in this thread please let me know via PM. I can only learn and adjust my views, as well realize the nature of the things I'm saying and its impact on others through discussion.
 
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