Would you consider "messianic judaism" to be anti-semetic?

J

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Sure seems that it is to me, but curious on other's views.
djmantix:

Paul certainly was. His teachings violated both Judaism and Jesus... bit of a double-whammy there.
Alice:

Multiple reasons. Most organized Messianic Groups are known to be fronts for fundamentalist protestant mission groups. Very VERY few (typically less than 10%) of members can claim to have any valid Jewish ancestry or experience. Most such groups have as a stated goal the conversion of Jews (if they themselves are Jewish... what conversion is there? Such a claim can only be taken as the intent to destroy classical Judaism)

To declare Jesus the Messiah is to call G-D a liar since Jesus did not fulfill the Jewish Messianic prophecies.

In short -- despite the trappings being the same, the theology and culture could not be any more different.

It'd be like a bunch of white guys of purely European descent dancing around a fire and calling themselves Completed Cherokees -- and I would consider that bigoted and racist towards the Cherokee Nation (hence my issue with the Order of the Arrow in Boy Scouts).
 
Most definitely. Nearly every messianic jew who I have talked to seems to really have a hatred going on for folks who are actually Jewish. They don't like Jewish folks because they call them on their BS and point out that messies are just Christians in disguise trying to co-opt Judaism.

So I agree with you J.P. and I am glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Edit: @ James, you really think the only people giving you thumbs down are Jewish folks? I can guarantee you that isn't the case.
 
well, we can see how their answers are just dripping with respect for real jews, can't we? [sarcasm]

they claim brotherhood with jews, yet they seek to destroy judaism thru their continued deceit. how can that not be antisemitic? not a single one of them have ever addressed the jewish evidence that jesus is not the jewish messiah. instead, they hide behind shallow plattitudes.

one of them claims to love jews, yet goes on to make horrible, bigoted remarks about orthodox jews. how perfectly loving. [sarcasm again]


and james, just so you know, i'm pagan and i gave you a thumbs down.
 
Absolutely not!
Judaism is made complete in Yeshua (Jesus). Read everything the Apotle Paul wrote (most of the New Testament) to fully understand how all this fits together.
Yeshua said that he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.
READ GOD'S WORD! Old Testament and New, it fits perfectly together!
 
There are several groups/cults of Christians that attempt to replace and eliminate the world's Jewish people and the religion of Judaism by claiming that *they* are the "real" Israel or "real" covenant people by hijacking identity such as the Black Hebrew Israelites, the British Israelites and the White Supremacist Christian Identity, but strangely, the "Messianic" evangelicals who insist they are Jews (despite violating the most core key tenets of the affirmation of faith in Judaism and Torah) appear to be more socially acceptable by many in their attempts to demonize Jews who declare to he world in all honesty that Christianity .,.the doctrine of the New Testament isn't Judaism.

Jews have recognized for a long time the antisemitic insults and the method of evangelizing of the Hebrew Christian's who claim to love Jews and Israel.
Canadian B'nai Brith,
"One of the more alarming trends in antisemitic activity in Canada in 1998 was the growing number of incidents involving messianic organizations posing as "synagogues". These missionizing organizations are in fact evangelical Christian proselytizing groups, whose purpose is specifically to target members of the Jewish community for conversion. They fraudulently represent themselves as Jews, and these so-called synagogues are elaborately disguised Christian churches."

another quote from an article I'll link below:
"Some "Torah-observant Israelite" groups are not nearly as benign. On its website, the Messianic Evangelical New Covenant Church of G-d (NCCG) has a section entitled "Talmudic Judaism: The Dark Truth," in which readers are promised that if "you are a genuine believer in the Lord Yeshua and you obey the Torah, you are marked by heaven as belonging to one of the Twelve Tribes, whether by descent or by adoption. If you are a Torah-observant Christian, you are Israel—and there is no other Israel."

This "Torah-observant site" leaves little doubt as to the ghastly fate that awaits the unconverted Jews, whom the site calls "Talmudic Jews," currently living in Eretz Yisrael. They "will be displaced by HaShem if they have not repented and received the true Messiah, whom they have reviled, persecuted, and killed."

"If they receive Him, they will be forgiven. If they do not, they will be cast out of the land which they are illegally occupying, along with all the other heathens who name other gods," the NCCG website promises its devotees."

Jews here in Yahoo Answers have even been told by a couple of the more prolific and vocal "Messianics" that Jews who "rejected" Jesus deserved the Holocaust. Thankfully GOOD Christians joined Jews in condemning that.
I am sure that many of my contacts will remember this notorious post:
"Since unbelieving Jews have refused to accept the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-36) brought by Jesus (Matt. 26:26-28), they are condemned by God (Deut. 28) and are no longer considered "chosen." (In fact, Deut. 28:62-63 explains why God permitted the Holocaust: because the Jewish people have disobeyed Him by refusing their Messiah.)
Daily Jews are personally insulted and called names outright when we state Jewish law and explain Judaism by people CLAIMING to be Jews..and these names are almost invariably attached to claims that it is Jews who are attacking them for their belief in Jesus! Email me and I'll send you links to many questions here where you can see this for yourself..judge for yourself what's going on. Don't take my word alone. If I post them here, massive mulltiple accounts will report it to hide it.
A Jewish Herald-Voice I received in the mail had a headline article about how “Messianics pervert Passover at some Houston-area churches” with a subtitle, “Deceptive tactics harm healthy Jewish-Christian relations, experts say.” I have personally been involved in interfaith groups and dialog for 30 years and it is my strong belief based on the words and behaviors I've witnessed escalate, that these groups have done as much to increase antisemitism as the propaganda of the Middle East. Daily insults and false accusations of bigotry to *them* and false accusation that Jews are persecuting them because they believe in Jesus displayed to Jews in Y/A is also evidence of this.
Look at any question on this issue and what is it that all the Jews address, in every Rabbinic platform statement on this issue from every movement.. It is about Jewish law being utterly ignored and disrespected. Every single movement of Judaism, on every continent, both Chief Rabbi's of Israel, and every Jewish group in every town where there is a large enough population of Jews to have a congregation agree that this is an assault to the very right of the Jewish people's self-identity according to the eternal covenant of God.
NOT ONE OF the hundreds of position statements out there from all the world’s Jewish people attacks them for believing in Jesus/Yeshua/Yahoshua or however they want to Hebraicise his name. (I recognize different groups insist it is spelled differently so I am not trying to disrespect their right to identify their savior as they choose either so do not go there)

I thank God that more and more Christians of integrity are waking up to the fact that these groups (as there are several who have jumped on this bandwagon, and supported by different evangelical Churches ) are also perverting *their* customs, faith and heritage to the world, and present New Testament adherents in a bad light.

Antisemitism has increased as a direct cause of the lies that are presented in their sponsoring churches and in their own churches they want to call synagogues that claim that Jews hate them *for their belief in Jesus*!

If a worshipper of Odin were to call themselves a "completed Christian" I think it would be expected that if a Christian said that Odin worship is outside of and irrelevant to Christianity, there would be no outrage displayed to the Christian for bigotry.
It is not bigotry to declare that Judaism is not Christianity. It is fact.Jesus and worship of or through him is outside of Judaism. Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism, just as Odin is irrelevant to Christianity.

It IS bigotry to the world's Jewish people to insult Jews for explaining Jewish law when asked about Judaism. Jews here aren't asking anyone to take up our religion or even asking those who demand their New Testament doctrine replace Torah law to abandon their choice of faith. We are asking them to stop trying to hijack our identity.The assault to the rights of Jewish people to maintain Jewish identity through Jewish law is hostile to Jews and is creating antisemitism because they claim that Jews persecute them for their faith in Jesus. *That essentially says Jews hate Christians for their belief and fuels centuries of antisemitism.* THIS is how they are spreading antisemitism in communities across the US.
The Jewish people as a covenant nation have a basic human right to maintain the laws of Judaism FOR our people.
You will often seen Y/A “messianic” attempt to NEGATE the Jewish religion's prophecy and concept from the Torah of the Davidic messiah and replace it with the New Testament's redefinition of the concept by calling Judaism “non messianic“. Not only is the belief that the Messiah/Messianic Age will transpire a principle of Judaism, but if Judaism wasn't a messianic religion, the Hebrew Christian evangelicals wouldn't have it's concept to try (and of course fail) to turn topsy turvy for the world's Jews. Since all of Judaism remains messianic, it would be redundant to name a separate group “Messianic Judaism”, just as it would be to call it “Monotheistic Judaism”. Jewish law (Torah, the eternal testament/covenant) remains the sole determinant of the Jewish religion and the New Testament remains irrelevant to it as it has from it's beginnings.You see, if they changed their name and no longer hijacked Jewish identity and Jews stopped speaking out against their misrepresentation of Judaism, they could no longer gain support as martyrs for their faith with the false claims they've been using all along, that Jews "attack them for their belief in Yeshuah".

Then why should Jews be repeatedly subject to sometimes rabid insults if we note that the worship of Jesus is forbidden to Jews by our laws of Torah? What kind of thinking would make it logical to declare that declaring the laws of your religion that it's adherents are bound under must imply intolerance for another religion to exist? The New Testament isn't Judaism. It never has been and never will be. Jews don't ask that others abandon their choice of dogma to follow, we simply ask for honesty that adherents of a religious doctrine whose core tenets of faith contradict and violate the Torah's commandments for the religion of Judaism..don't hijack our name and insult us when we explain Judaism.
Torah teaches that God does not become a man. That is a core part of Judaism and what differentiated it from most of the religions of the ancient Levant. That won’t ever change about Judaism.
The Christian Bible's concept of messiah fits Jesus. The beliefs of those who call themselves “Messianic Jews” fit the New Testament doctrine of the nature of God, sin, and their concept of messiah is at odds with that of the Jewish religion. When Jews are explaining the differences, not once has any Jew told the Christian that they're damned or evil for choosing to believe their doctrine of the New Testament.
This answer is long but I ask that you read a couple of other things I've written I'll link below, too
 
This is an inflamatory question - it is not peace loving. Quite the contrary, I believe Jews (Orthodox, Reform and Conservative) posting here to be anti-Semetic to Messianic Jews.

Why did you post this, to further your cause that we are not peace loving Jews, Hebrew Christians or as some prefer to be called "Messianic Jews"?

I've seen many of the posts you leave in reply to a Messianic Jew posting and they are hateful -- as I'm sure others have.

__________
Posters take notice of all the thumbs down on the posts that say Messianic Jews are NOT Antisemetic. It's the Orthodox, Reform and Conservative Jews placing them!
 
Of course it is anti-semetic. "messianic Jews" are Christians, that is clear enough (they believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, worship him, believe he was the divine son of God, they hold the New Testament as sacred and holy, etc. etc. etc). 98% of them were born and raised as Christians. Calling themselves "Jews" is fraudulent. They are guilty of religious identity theft. They commit blasphemy as far as Jews are concerned by inserting Jesus into Jewish rituals and holidays and calling the result Jewish when it is clearly not. They are an insult to Judaism.

edit: James, please explain how someone can be antisemitic to Christians???????? That makes no sense at all.

edit: DSM errs in his first sentence: contrary to what he says, "messianic Judaism" is not a form of Judaism. Therefore, it certainly can be (and it actually is) anti-semitic.
 
So you think Jesus and the deciples were anti-semitic.

Edit Paul was a racist against Jews though he was a Jew, interesting opinion. I love the way you insult protestants and white people and belive God chose you according to your race and you call others racisit and bigots, could it be your lack of understanding? No of course not.
 
It was created specifically by the Southern Baptists for the purpose of annihilating the Jewish people through conversion to Christianity. They call themselves the "chosen people" now so they must annihilate those impostors who still call themselves Jews.
.
 
That's a terrible question to ask. They're even loving to Muslims. Jews generally aren't.

What is your agenda, to stir up hatered where there is none?

Looks like it isn't working, it it?
 
As you can see, J.P., this question will never be answered to anyone's satisfaction. The Messianics will always be who they are and we will always be who we are and that's that.

I do believe, however, that there is an element of hatred towards Judaism as witnessed by James' saying that Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews are giving thumbs down. He says that as though those groups are not the only kind of Jews and that Messianics are legitimate as Jews. And we both know he is wrong, but it reveals his hatred of Jews who are really Jews.

This will never change. We have been hated for over 2,000 years because the Christians see us as rebuking them for not believing what they do. G-d knows what they are doing; G-d knows the truth of all this; G-d will deal with them.
 
@;"Would you consider "messianic judaism" to be anti-semetic?"

YES, BECAUSE YAHSHUA SAID THAT THEY WERE NOT A PART OF HIS SHEEP FOLD, NOT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE.....THEY JUST WASN'T BECAUSE OF THEIR APOSTASY; MAN-MADE TRADITIONS.
TEACHINGS OF MAN THROUGH THE TALMUD.
YAHSHUA HAD THE TRUE RELIGION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT FOUND IN THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. HE WAS CONSTANTLY REBUKING THE JEWS FOR HAVING ABANDONED THE LAW FOR.....JUDAISM UNDER 'BABYLONIAN LAWS."...THE TRADITIONS OF THE ELDERS...MATTHEW 5;17-18.

IT'S ALL THERE IN THE "NEW TESTAMENT" HIS LIFE ON EARTH.
 
I love Israel and the Jews. They are some of my favorite people, even though they don't believe in Jesus the way that I do, I still love them. One day they'll see the truth then they'll know God's real plan....


Messianic Jews, whose contribution to society is almost always positive, are despised and rejected by the establishment, and told they are not Jews…Messianic Jews pray for their enemies.

The Orthodox curse their enemies… the police have not even talked to the witnesses that have agreed to testify in behalf of Ami Ortiz, the youth who was bombed by ultra-Orthodox terrorists in Ariel because his father David is a Messianic pastor.

Orthodox Judaism, teaches its adherents to love those who are similar in religion and to hate those who are different…In Orthodoxy, lying, cheating, stealing and violent behavior are acceptable if the goal is ‘worthy.’…
 
No, not at all. Fact is, the Jews sort of screwed the pooch over Jesus. The entire OT speaks of the coming of Christ, they just expected something else, which is why He was rejected and killed. However, God being the Gracious and Loving God He is, they will be forgiven. Be well.
 
You should stop being paranoid. Quit looking for racists and anti-Semites where none exist.

To answer you question: no.
 
That is an interesting question....Can a form of Judaism be anti-semetic?

On the surface, the question is self-defeating. No.

So let's define Jew or Judaism.

***It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do....a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox.*** http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

In otherwords, Jew and Judaism is an umbrella term including many ideas, theologies and sects.

***It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do.***

Again, no.

So by the question and by definition, the answer is "no." The answer is "no."

Should you want to come up with a different definition of Judaism, please post it and see if it cuts the mustard.

Hope this helps
 
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