Your .02 on anti-immigration laws.

OK, thanks for clearing that up - I thought you were drawing some crazy parallels for a moment there We can both agree that there is massive amount of difference between a serial killer and an illegal immigrant! I do see what you were trying to say but I think that the example you gave was a little to extreme

I think issues like this can never really be discussed completely on message boards because things just fly out of hand so much faster than they would do in real life where we could all just have a pie and a pint and not rip each others proverbials off.... talking of pie, it's breakfast time...
 
yea so all you are doing is making broad generalizations about a very large group of people based on your limited personal experience.

you are right that is not bigoted at all.
 
No, I'm speaking from experience, from the proof of inspections from countless building inspectors, from seeing the work on countless houses, from speaking with numerous contractors in a number of building/construction trades in a number of states.
 
I agree with Brad and Kwajman that since we have laws reguarding immigration those laws MUST be enforced. If they are old, out dated, inappropriate, let the courts sort them out but until such time they are changed, enforce them. Make no mistake, if you enter the country without following the laws that govern said entry, you have broken the law and should be sent back. Unless you meet the criteria for deferment such as political asylum. People seeking to leave their country for the opportunities this country has to offer, should do so LEGALLY. If you don't have the patience for that, we should not be patient in putting your butt back on a plane, train, or boat. Millions of people have waited patiently in line to follow the rules to gain citizenship. Why should they take a back seat to people who don't follow the rules? That is discrimination in my eyes.
 
the bottom line is this, it is all well and good to feel this way, but the reality is many hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are already in the united states, sending them all back is not going to happen. it would cost billions of dollars, as well as put a very serious strain on a lot of industries, like agriculture and construction. it would mean things like food would suddenly start to get a lot more expensive.

hell even throwing one quarter of them in the legal system is going to gum the already overflowing courts. all of the plans i hear anti-immgratation people putting forward are wildly too simple and unrealistic to carry out in the real world.

these people are here, they are not going anywhere and like it or not no matter what you do short of blowing mexico up, more are coming. the ONLY way to stem this is to make the places they come from better places to live and work.
 
The problem with that is that it is not our job to do so. The State is to make sure the people within its own boundries are safe, comfortable, and ordered. You want us to encompass the entire world as our State? We do have to follow up with the laws we make or we wouldn't be respected at all. If we were wishy washy and letting people come, then sending them away, then just being all confused it would show weakness. We make a law, we enforce it, simple as that. You want other contries to change for the better then go hound the U.N..

Mei Hua - I feel you on the illegals in construction. Although I wont go and say that all of them work horribly just because they are illegals (although I don't believe that's what you are really trying to say), I will say that the quality of work is probably based on their intentions (to make money and send it back as quickly as possible) and the poor ammount of payment they recieve anyways. Who wants to do a good job for pennies when the next man is getting paid good money for a good job?
 
Two thoughts, if WE are to be held responsible for making their third world home country better, what incentive does that give the governments of those countries to do the same? They have less strain on their infrastructures, they get hard cash coming back from the US to support their own economies, and they can dump their jails of trouble makers if they so desire and we're supposed to sit back and take it?

And regarding letting illegals stay, are we just supposed to choose which laws we enforce now? Okay, everyone drive 85 in a 30 zone, if everyone does it, they can't stop us. Thats the thinking I'm seeing from the pro-immigrant people. Then you have groups like la ranza (?) who openly call for the taking back of states and open defiance of police and current citizens. I have a brother who's a doctor in Georgia getting over run with illegals, in his little town, the docs got together and just no longer accept spanish only speaking patients. His income is up, he has a ton less 'no pay' bills and theres not been a peep from the 'legal' citizens of his town. His group has done it for over two years and they haven't even had a threat of a lawsuit. The only way to make the illegals leave is to make it uncomfortable for them to live here, THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS.
 
i am not saying the US has to be responsible for making other countries better places to live, i am saying that is one of the only ways that illegal immigration is going to slow down. that is the reality of the situation.



heh you and i have been through this argument before kwaj i know where you are coming from, but again like the war on drugs this war is not going to be won, the end. so do you look at the situation objectively and try to come to a more realistic way of dealing with the problem or do you keep pouring billions of dollars into an un-winnable strategy?

also the scale of the problem is much different you can not compare speeding with illegal immigration.
 
So have I, Captain Clueless, but you were real quick to disregard my experiences when they were positive! I've lived in the same neighborhoods and dealt with the same people, so what the hell makes your experiences right and mine wrong?!? So get off your own high horse. You wanna focus on the negative, great, my experiences don't jive with yours therefore I don't know what I'm talking about. Whatever.
 
Ooooh, armchair psych!

Let me clue you in on a little secret... My attitude blows because I'm seeing a hell of a lot of ignorance and bigotry from people I *used* to respect in this and other threads. You don't like what I have to say, hit the "ignore" button or become Captian Clueless' sidekick or whatever, it's irrelevant to me.

If coming off my pedestal means agreeing with some of the crap I've seen posted on MAP over the last few days, I'll stay right where I am, thank you very much, elitist or not.

Oh, and your armchair psych, pathetic as it was? All wrong. So kiss off.
 
Where? What positive experiences? You've done nothing but whine and make derogatory statements about other MAP members. I've had plenty of positive experiences myself and some negative ones so what? What you have no clue about is the affect that a large influx of people can have on local infrastructure. If it were Canadians flooding over the border, ignoring our laws, customs and overloading the infrastructure I'd say deport those SOBs too. I'd feel the same about any nationality; however due to geographical restraints only Canada and Mexico have the option of just walking over here.

I'm not the one calling everyone on this thread that disagrees with my position a bigot or a racist. I’ve kept my arguments on the topic and have not resorted to ad hominem until issuing repeated warnings for you to knock it off. You’ve truly shown your communication skills and (lack of )character.
 
see grang i'm not the only one. attack my oppinion fine but attacking me personally because you believe your better than me is bulls**t.stick to the topic and quit attacking people if you've got a problem personally with me solve it like a man not like some overeducated no-it-all
 
Wow, RIF, cullen. Go back and reread the posts where you asked me how many Latinos I knew and I listed all of them. And then go reread where you blew off my comments.



They're not ad hominum attacks if there is a basis in fact, cullen. Get over it. I don't give a rat's ass about what you think about my character because over the last few days I've come to see yours and I'm frankly disgusted.



I am an educated know-it-all, what's your point?
 
I refuted your argument; you are the one doing all the blowing here, pal. I'm ass___ deep in the quagmire you are so flippantly commenting on; ____ has changed, as you like to say GET OVER IT.

You have not at any point addressed any of the questions I've asked except to say you know some Mexicans, Salvadorans etc... Whoopee! You talked to your neighbor Jose last night; it doesn't make you an expert in Latino culture.

I’d feel the same way if we had the same problems with German, Polish, Russian, British, Canadian or ANY other nationality of immigrant. The point that you do not seem to comprehend is that NO ONE here has been against legal immigration [sarcasm] WOW! That’s real racist of me, huh GC?[/sarcasm]




Coming from you that is a compliment, the feeling is mutual.



No, you are a pompous, ignorant, fool that thinks he knows-it-all.
 
No, you are a pompous, ignorant, fool that thinks he knows-it-all.[/QUOTE]
thanks bc grang he is better at wording but thats how i feel
 
Great, the feeling is mutual because I think you're a narrow minded pain in the ass who thinks he knows what I do and don't know.
 
You make a valid point or points. The first thing that has to be addressed is to "stop the bleeding" at our borders. The problem of what to do with those that are already here is daunting to say the least. The mere fact that after 9/11 we have millions of undocumented aliens in this country can be down right scary. Stop the flow of illegal aliens first. Then deal with those in country. We have got to vette those that are here. We need a process that recognizes the work that illegals do, that provides for a background check, that allows them to work but does not put them "at the front of the line". How this can be accomplished I have no idea.

We must protect our borders. We must stem the flow of illegal aliens. We must provide a workable solution. Our security is the priority.
 
This thread needs to calm down, immediately.

I do not want to see any more personal attacks, profanity, profanity that you have played around with to defeat the filter, or any more rediculousness.

Just because people don't agree with you does not mean that you are free to call them names. Just because they have experiences that you haven't doesn't mean that they are incorrect.

Further, everyone is working on the assumption that people who immigrated before 1965 did so under the same laws. The laws we are using now were implimented in 1965 and the pervious laws had nothing to do with learning English and were merely set as part of a quota system. If you are going to start arguing about a set of American laws, it would behoove you to actually do some research. And yes, this is aimed at both sides.
 
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