Zimmerman Martin Case

[joelataxi]

Anyone want to go to South Detroit and spend the evening with me? How about you Owl?

All I'm saying is we need to open up the conversation so all sides can get the real picture of what's going on. We can't fix it by burying our heads in the sand and continuing on a road that is a dead end. I know poverty is a big issue especially in the inner city, lack of education, lack of family units. It's almost as if no one want's to change the status quo.

I'm sorry again if I offended anyone but that's how I feel. If you think I'm racist so be it...but I don't hate, and I think theres a big difference between hate, and awareness.

 

[NicolelKellie</3]

So if someone suffers a tragedy in their personal life, it is alright to say whatever they want, no matter if it is spewing hatred and intolerance for other people based on things like their race? Just because somebody is killed by a person of another race, it automatically makes demonizing them or hating all people of that race alright? Funny. If that was the case, minorities, in particularly African-Americans, should hate all whites forever because of what was done to their ancestors during slavery. Almost the entire economic basis of the South was formed on slave labor. That helped our country industrialize. Blacks were treated like animals, killed for sport or fun, made to breed so that the slave owners could achieve more economic profit, and were prevented by penalty of death from learning how to read and write. If they were married, it didn't matter, not only was it not honored by the master, but they were often sold to other plantations. Blacks couldn't vote, go to school, or any of the million other things we take for granted today. Of course woman's plight wasn't that much better in many ways. Look at any statistic of success, from income to education, to life expectancy and you will still find that whites control most of the access to wealth, health, and success in our country. You can be lynched, shot, or made to feel inferior just because you are not white any day of the year in any State of the Union and nobody(except those minorities) gives a darn about it. Almost every African-American family around today could tell you about an ancestor who was raped, killed, or discriminated against by a white person. Or they probably could if there were records of their family histories pre-dating the Civil War. If you recall, they were considered the same as furniture or livestock and most of their history before emancipation is hard to research at best. So should every African-American hate white people for all the centuries of abuse and suffering that they had to endure as a people, only to be hated even to this day for not being white? No, that would be stupid, as ignorant as people often claim minorities to be(act, dress, behave). Just imagine if all black people were scared of white people because of their shotguns in the car, Confederate flags(how many years after the Civil War?) and country music. Yet some claim to fear African-Americans. Well, why is that exactly? Is there some subconscious guilt associated with that fear or is it just ignorance of the unknown? Why is it even necessary to say some of these things in 2013?

Black culture as someone called it, gave us jazz, rock, and hip hop music, as well as many other things that are more important but rarely get discussed in the media. So, the most popular forms of music that are not only loved and respected, but emulated across the world makes people think of gangsters and thugs? In Japan, black culture has the most influence on their music, pop cultural trends, fashion, and dance. It is considered cool and hip(not necessarily saying that this is a good thing, they tend to copy other cultural forms without always digging deep to understand them).

There is a big difference from hate crimes and killing someone just because they are African-American or a minority, and crimes that come about from burglary, drug dealing, and other kinds of criminal activity because the goal is to try to get something in return, not rob somebody of their dignity and self respect based on the pigmentation of their skin.

So you want to disparage another group of people over a killing, where do we start and how do we ever finish? The African-American community is just as diverse as any other community so to generalize them without obviously having a clue about the intricacies of that community, its history, and its plight, is not only ignorant, but it has no place on a martial arts forum and even goes against the morals and ideals of most martial arts.

Tolerance for bigotry and racism is adding to the problem, and will never solve it. Funny what a few college courses, some good books, and talking to people like people, even if they are different from you; late into the night can do for you. If you find yourself ignorant and want to do something responsible about it, do what I did and reach out and learn from those who are different from you, you might find that deep down you're a lot alike.

 

[eards]

Good lord. You really need to take a visit to a place that has real racism issues if you thought what Obewan wrote was spewing hatred and intolerance. Try Lochloosa, Florida. It's a place near the hometown I grew up. Used to be a past slave town and Lochloosa is where all the gator hunting and emu raising rednecks live. Some of my friends wouldn't even want to drive into there in fear of being lynched.

Obewan: "I think a more constructive approach would serve everyone better than a divisive "racist" conversation permeating from the press and Black activists. We as a nation, as a community of people, not black people, or white people, all of us need to work together and lift each other up and set a path to educate and heal society."

Sounds like hate speech to me!

To the second quoted paragraph . . . . "lol what?" No place on a martial arts forum? Is that your call to get the thread closed down or something? I might be inclined to agree if the thread kept the tone of the first post by certain individuals, but it hasn't. And what martial code of ethics are you being taught? Anything and anyone I've ever learned from has been all about fighting and not much else. Also, learning how to hate a certain group of people (not saying this is right) could easily be a martial skill. It's a lot easier to harm another person if you hate them which makes you a much better and willing fighter. I find your call to objection by using martial arts seriously lacking.

You say tolerance for bigotry and racism is adding to the problem. I agree, but in my opinion it augments the current and real problem which is poverty and education. What I think Obewan is doing is profiling for his area and the people he's profiling happen to be black. If he was in a place where MS-13 was operating he would probably be profiling hispanics, or in another part of Michigan, muslims, and so on. Being human, as we all are, it's not always easy to draw a line in the sand where one circumstance probably doesn't apply to all situations when that's all we experience in our environment. Obewan certainly doesn't give me the impression of being a racist with what he said. As much as you say a tolerance for bigotry and racism adds to the problem, I would add that an intolerance of accepting an opinion that does not maintain the same level of empathy towards race that you feel does not help the situation either.




Edit: Holy crap, you didn't "edit" your post, you inserted a short essay in place of the original post.



.

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

I never said to not disagree with him, just don't start blasting him.

Way to be too concerned with being self-righteous and take things out of context, PR.

 

[HELMETHEED]

Sorry, but you have no idea where I've been, what I've experienced, or anything else so don't patronize me. Of course this thread should be kept open, just that INTELLIGENT and well thought out posts are more in line with what our nation needs.

 

[AshleyZ]

Posts in the manner of the one he wrote should be blasted. I don't believe the man should, but his words and what they represent do, without reservation.

 

[MreBaker]

One thing I've probably taken out of conversations like this is that when somebody brings up the "you don't know me and what I've been through" attitude they probably aren't worth continuing to talk to. Too special and unique for the rest of us to say anything. I understand though as I used to do it too, which is probably why I realize it's not worth saying anything else to you really because whenever I have acted like that I wasn't trying to hear anything but my own opinions.

 

[TPhi]

Some people are just way too quick to bang their own drum, regardless of the music other people are playing or listening to.

 

[Nacho]

i think it's interesting, again, that you, and kuma, attack someone that points out overt or not-so-overt racism that exists today. you've added nothing to the conversation except attack anyone else as "righteous", "whiney", and "special and unique"--all your words.

yet you come to obewan's defense. did you read this part of his post?



i don't see how you can defend that--at all. that's overt racism.

 

[TypicalMach1]

Nowhere did I say I was defending it. I merely pointed out that perhaps is not the best time to criticize his choice of comments considering the very personal event that just took place in his life. I know a fellow veteran who is extremely distrustful of Muslims simply because he let his guard down once and paid for it by becoming an amputee. I doubt when it happened the first thing he wanted is to be accused of being a racist, un-PC, and the whole nine yards.

 

[Powers]

Also, Giovanni, if you're allowed to refer to your negative feelings about Christianity through your posts on MAP, why isn't Obewan allowed to share his negative feelings? Should you be entitled to something that he shouldn't?

 

[Ryan_Ebun]

you're implicitly defending it by asking people to lay off criticizing his overt racism.

that post deserves to be blasted, tragic or not. i might as well say that i don't trust all white people because of aurora, colorado or columbine or sandy hook. or asians because of virginia tech.

 

[n_n]

Hey, guys. In reference to the original post, my understanding of this issue has been met by my own mixed feelings. However, if there was one thing I were to take away from this, it's that in my training, I've been taught to avoid possible confrontations as much as possible. Of course, the law is not based entirely on martial arts practices/ethics, but I still stand by the opinion that if George Zimmerman had not disobeyed the police when asked to remain in his vehicle to pursue the suspect, then there wouldn't have been any further issues to begin with. Regardless of the outcome, thinking through a martial arts perspective, he ignited a series of events due to his belligerence. Also to note is that Zimmerman has a poor history with the police (including resisting arrest). But that's a martial arts perspective, not the law, let alone not Florida state law.

Little less than a year ago, I posted a story here about how I was forced into an altercation outside of a lounge. While my involvement in it was to defend a family member and prevented injury, I realized that other measures could have been taken to avoid it such as asking to leave via a back door after noticing the aggressor waiting for us outside struggling with the bouncers. In that sense, if any serious injuries were to occur beyond that (whether to the attacker or the defenders), partial blame would have been on me. Through a legal perspective, however, that wouldn't be the case.

Just my perspective and two cents worth.

 

[Cupcakes]

of course he's allowed to share, just like i'm allowed to share. i'm not entitled to other peoples' opinion of me though.

 

[latenight]

I don't feel I was really defending Obewan as much as I was refuting the label of hateful racist scum that Please Reality was trying to place on him. Those words don't scream overt racism to me. "I hate 'n-words'" and "I hate spooks" are things that I would call somebody out for being racist over. I don't think somebody should be crucified for being honest about themselves, especially as mildly as it was put. To me it read like somebody who feels a certain way about something due to personal experiences, knows it probably isn't right but isn't going to lie about himself.

 

[BobbyRe]

If you're happy with being a bigot, go ahead. It's darn hypocritical to be a bigot but call others out on their prejudices though.

 

[JemB]

of course you call that mild ero.

 

[WilL]

I'm sorry Giovanni, I've been around a lot more extreme stuff like that and I just don't personally consider his post as a hard line form of racism. If anything I see it as an unfortunate conclusion based on personal experience and a gross generalization. I don't think the way you want to label it is appropriate.

 

[chocolatebee]

so i'm a bigot because i don't believe?

 

[VeganThadd]

Nope. It's the negative comments you've given before. How is what you have done in the past different from what Obewan is doing? (Hint - it's not.)