Abortion is Wrong

I think once that God has been proven to exist and is not just an ancient control method that creates wealth then I doubt anyone would even contemplate aborting a foetus. So I'm sure it won't be long now..........
 
I think there are very few people on the pro-choice side that think abortions are "OK" in that sort of throw-away way.
Most of us view them as a highly regrettable, but necessary, measures under certain circumstances and with certain caveats.

I think in the real world you have to accept that things are never perfect, people live in different ways and nothing will be fool-proof.

Personally I'd lower the age at which elected abortions are legal. 26 weeks (I think that's the current limit) is too old for me.

It's remarkable how many men weigh in on the issue and insist all women have to have every pregnancy go full term. That's got nasty partriarchal overtones to me.
 
Good observation. However, I don't agree, for the following reasons. Keep in mind that this is just how I think. On an objective level I agree with you: every pointless death is one too many.

The reason I think babies and young kids are more precious than adults -in terms of tragedy- is that they cannot influence their life yet to the point where what happens to them is a consquence of their own action.

For example, if I get mugged on the way home, it is not my fault. Please, I don't want to argue right and wrong here. But what happens, happens as a consequence of my choices and actions. I could have taken a different route if I thought it was dangerous. I could have learned MA enough to defend myself. I could have worn a bulletproof vest. ETc. No matter how or what, at least the outcome of the situation depended in part on the choices I made.

A baby or child or for that matter an unborn foetus cannot make all choices. the legal guardian in whatever format is making the choices for them. Whatever happens to them, they cannot influence the outcome, or not yet in any meaningful way.

They also cannot know the ways of the world yet. They have to be taught. Until they reach the point where they can physically and mentally make choices for themselves, someone else is trusted to do this and to help them get to the point where they can do so.

So I think the death of little kids and babies is more tragic because not only do they die, they die (usually) because someone else screwed up, or betrayed that trust. Adults can die because someone else screwed up as well, but they were in charge of all the decisions leading up to the untimely demise.

A baby dying in an overheated car because of parental neglect is worse than a teen getting hit by a train while trying to clear the intersection by zig zagging between the poles out of impatience.
 
Why is 26 weeks too old? So, you realize that there is a life, but you want to determine what is age appropriate killing? 24,23,23 weeks? Life begins at conception.

In the real world, murder is murder. I accept that everything isn't perfect, I don't accept or condone the killing of babies. 0

Convenience, it's all about convenience. Selfishness, me generation, no moral compass...... UGH.
We could bypass and excuse any and all unethical and immoral behavior with "well, the world's not perfect".....

as far as the perceived undertones, LMAO!!
 
I'm going back to martial arts and self defense subjects, this one disgusts me.
 
I arrive at my personal limit on abortion partly by looking at the development of the foetus (its brain, nerves, etc), partly by looking at how early premature babies can survive (and that's getting near 26 weeks IIRC) and then partly by applying my own innate squemishness of how I feel when looking at a developing foetus and how I think it should be considered.
The nearer it looks to being human the more consideration I think it should get and I make no excuse or scientific justification for that. I just think that's how most humans "work" when they look at the issue. You can't make such an emotive issue entirely science based IMHO and (in common with some religious types..not my style at all) don't think it ever should be.
 
This is something you believe. It is not necessarily supported by the science. 26 weeks is too old because at that point, I think it is reasonable to call the fetus a child. Most of the organs are developed and there is non trivial brain activity.

Murder is unlawful killing. If it's legal, it's not murder.

And as has been said repeatedly on this thread, a single celled zygote is not a baby.

It's not about convenience. There is nothing convenient about getting an abortion, but in a lot of cases, it is the better course, either for medical or financial reasons - I don't consider it any great mercy to bring a child into the world who will go hungry because its parents can't afford to support it.

It's also not a generational issue. Abortions have been carried out for as long as there have been pregnant women. If there are more of them now it is only because the procedures are safer, not because of some underlying cultural shift.
 
I cut the quote just to save space

I agree with the whole thing I think. I do find the death of young people or any other kind of helpless person more tragic in the sense that there's less they could do about it. To take a more extreme example, the child victims of shootings or the executions in Syria for instance I found the children's deaths more of a shame in that I'd like to think an adult would have more of a chance of acting to defend themselves whereas the more vulnerable are a lot more...doomed? I can't think of a decent word.

I normally take the "death of a child is sadder" line to be more of a moral one because that's normally how its presented to me. That's the view I disagree with, that their life is seemingly worth more than someone else's. I did a hideous job of explaining that though

Very good post though mate. It made me think and I like posts that do that.
 
And if you killed someone in self defense?

Your irony meter is broken.


I'm sorry, you just throw too many straight lines out there, this isn't even a challenge.
 
You think, you believe, we feel this or that. That's what it's all about, whatever helps us sleep at night........
 
I'm not trying to challenge you on a forum, or to win any kind of argument. This is much to important, lives are at stake. There is a baby genocide taking place, and everyone's under reaction is astounding.
 
Of course, but please don't pretend you're all that different. If any of us let the enormity of the injustices and the atrocities that take place every single day, we'd all lose our minds.

I think abortions are a terrible thing, but I don't think they're even in the top 100 terrible things that we could stop if we wanted to.
 
Definition of GENOCIDE

: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

Are babies a racial, political or cultural group? Perhaps a combination of some of them?

Besides, wouldn't baby genocide kind of end human existence?

You really shouldn't repeat propaganda until you know what all of the words mean.

Self thought is not a crime.
 
I would like to point out that saying you're disgusted by pro-choice people maybe isn't the best strategy for changing opinion to help prevent that genocide
 
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