Israel Blockades Lebanon

You're Native American analogy isn't even close. For example, the tribes of the Iriqoui Nation had clearly defined borders among other agreements, so there's one country that was taken. All you need to do is a little research to see just how incorrect your analogy is.

Second, the idea that Israel could have effective diplomacy from a weakened postition with nations who's policy for 60 years has been to destroy the Jewish State is naive beyond belief.
 
Then exactly how is Israel supposed to go after Hezbollah if the use of force is what you object to?
 
This statement shows your profound lack of understanding of Arab culture and proves you don't know what you're talking about. Arab/Muslim culture is a shame-based society. The Western world is a guilt-based society. It would be very difficult to explain to you the vast differences in outlook and world-view; the concept of para-lying, and "wasta" in a single post. I suggest however, you go look it up so you can see just how little you really know these people. Quick example: If I was the mayor of a city, and appointed only my family and closesest friends to postions of power and influence even though they aren't qualified, we would say that's bad and call it Nepotism. Look at the flap over GW's buddy that was FEMA director. In the Arab world, Nepotism isn't considered bad, it's considered a moral duty and anyone who would take the most qualified person over a family member or friend is considered immoral, dishonorable, and untrust-worthy. It is a mistake, born of sheer arrogance on your part- or anyone in the western world for that matter- to apply your values and assume that things like objectivity, honesty, or integrity mean the same thing to Muslim/Arabs as they do to us. They just don't.
 
Of course they are. They want to get their own country, instill a strict Sharia based gov't, build up an Army of modern weapons which they could legitimatly buy using their new nationhood, and then invade Israel with their new weapons and push her into the sea, reclaiming the land for dar el islam.
 
Wow, good thing for you you'll be able to live off the green cheese once you get to the moon, right?
 
I wish I could believe that, but unfortunately the religious jurisprudice of Islam demands the destruction of Israel. One way or another, as long as Israel exists, there will be conflict and violence.
 
That wouldn't happen, there would be excruciatingly tight control over Palestines military, and proper military equipment costs a fortune, I doubt they would ever be able to build a military that could seriously threaten Israels security, it'd be like Luxembourg launching an offensive against France.
 
Thats not true, you give Palestine a nation and a whole lot of Hamas' membership falls by the wayside because a lot of them joined because of that. Sure there will always be a large hardline minority but they will still be the minority. Within 100 years of a Palestinian state being in existance, I can see the two nations being at peace and trading...that is assuming Palestine are given time to mature as a nation unlike Lebanon who have been hounded since the day they were granted independance.
 
So I take it you don't understand the difference either? In the western world, if you're caught doing something wrong or illegal, owning up to it or admitting your guilt carries with it the idea of remorse and hence, mitigation of punishment. In the shame-based Arab society, the act is not wrong, it's getting caught that is bad. The idea of 'coming clean' is baffling to them, because admitting to it -even when you've been caught red-handed-, means you will be punished more. There is no value placed on saying 'yes, I did it', in fact it's looked down on more than committing the act because now you've increased the loss of face to your family and clan by taking away their deniability. Admittedlythis is a very simplified version of a complex social idea, but it covers the basics.
 
Could the French army even protect them against Luxembourg?


Unfortunately, I think that there are groups that would help fund them getting a military very quickly.
 
tell me more about *the muslims* then maybe we can move to *the blacks* and *the christians* or an always fun topic of discussion, *the gays.*

we can have some nice converstaitons about how incredibly large and diverse groups of people think and act all the same.
 
You're missing the point. Israel is on land that was at one time under Muslim control, a part of the dar el Islam. As a fatah land, Muslim law cannot allow it to revert to the control of non-Muslims. Remember, Hamas is nothing more than the Palestinian local of the Muslim Brotherhood who's ultimate goal is the restoration of the Caliphate. Even if every Palestinian abandons the struggle, Islamists world wide will continue to try and destroy Israel. They must, as they truely believe their god demands the land be under control of the Uofftopic. They believe the only reason Israel exists in the first place is that Allah is unhappy with their piety. Only after they have found a way to live under the purified Sharia will Allah grant them victory. It's not simply a matter of waiting for Islam to modernize as Christianity did. It's the exact opposite, because each 'loss' to the body of Islam at the hands of the west is viewed as punishment from Allah for the Uofftopic's lack of piety and hence reason to go closer to 10th century Islam, while each victory is viewed as confirmation from Allah that they are doing the right thing.
 
Great, hang on to your rampant liberalism where no one can effectively generalize about anything without being offensive. God forbid! Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to try and understand the culture of a people who approach the world in profoundly differnent ways than we do. The irony is, that their culture would find your view of not being able to generalize completely at odds with their interpretation of the world. In the Arab world, inductive reasoning where if one Canadian is an idiot, all Canadians are idiots makes perfect sense and they would be surprised to find out that you wouldn't agree or generalize on those assumptions the same way. The fact remains that you can generalize about cultures and there is a large body of modern scholarly work to support not only that fact, but the delineations between our cultures that I'm trying to illustrate. These differences are the reasons why what seems like such obvious solutions to the Palestinian problem to us, will never be acceptable to the Arab street. We continue to approach the problem from our Western world view and in our arrogance, dismiss their ideas of what is proper or acceptable, asking them to humiliate themselves in a way that is abhorant to their shame-based, face-saving culture.
 
Just who is going to maintain this control over the Palestinian military? Wouldn't that be an imposition on their soverignty, calling into question the existence of the state itself?
 
so why not explain where you are getting your views from DC, do you have a large group of muslim friends or acquaintances, perhaps you spent some time in the the middle east and have interacted with their culture, or have you read some biased books and websites that simply reinforce your views?
 
you are talking about hardline conservative muslims of which there are very few, I doubt they make up 5% of the Muslim world. I certainly have never met one and I've come into contact with a lot of Muslims from a variety of backgrounds, most just want to live their life in peace. I've also never experienced this cultural generalisation you speak about, unless you are talking about the Islamic worlds view of the US, in which case its not really a generalisation its a view based on many experiences.
 
First and foremost you can look to Israel for that responsibility. But I daresay the US will keep an eye on them as well.

Of course then there is the question of where they are going to get their equipment. Military aircraft are not cheap to buy and Pilots not easy to train, and I doubt there are many places that will sell to Palestine. Warships the same, where they gonna get them, how they gonna pay for them and how they gonna crew them? There is no shortage of firearms but that alone is nowhere near enough to launch a meaningful offensive. Look at Lebanon now, Israel are kicking their ass because they are attacking primarily via the land and the sea, where AK47 rounds cant reach.
 
If you look earlier in this thread, you'll see a small sample of materials I've read on the subject, in addition to the numerous training courses, military and civilian, I've attended, and the months I've spent living and working in a variety of Muslim countries from Africa, to the Caucuses, to Central Asia; all of which were in addition to and before 9/11 and the subsequent time in Afghanistan and Iraq. Did I mention I teach Cross-Cultural Communication and Understanding for the military?
 
No I'm not talking about hard-line conservative muslims. I'm talking about Arab cultural norms in general.

And sure you have. Haven't you ever heard anyone refer to the Balkans as a past-oriented cultural? Or Latin America as a present-oriented culture? Do you own a watch? Are you punctual in meeting your appointments? Do you worry about being late? It's because you live in a future oriented cultural. These are merely the concepts of time different peoples around the world have, yet they impact how we view them and our opinions of them in a wide range of matters when our interactions with them don't go smoothly as a result of our lack of understanding. There are many others.
 
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