Israel Blockades Lebanon

The bolded part is the essential element. They are our only real ally in the Middle East. That's it. Other countries are at best fair weather friends until they are needed or the gifts halt for a second.

As far as Jews being the powerhouse of the media, please clarify that. Fox is probably the biggest supporter of Israel in the news and Murdoch is only half Jewish. CBS, NBC, ABC, and particularly CNN are not the cheerleaders that you seem to be indicating. When was the last time that you saw a pro Israel movie or TV show? Even the movie Munich, made by a Jew, was pretty anti-Israel.
 
Read some history about citizens in occupied Denamrk, The Low Countries and the Channel Islands (yes part of Britain was occupied by the Nazis) where they risked there lifes to hide Jews and smuggled them out of danger and it may save you from making stupid uneducated statements like this in future. "they are happy to sit back and watch Jews get killed"
 
I think you'll find the majority of the uk don't support terrorists , we had a small problem with the ira (you know those honest to goodness freedom fighters) for a number of years , long before 9/11 made alot of people in the us sit up and take notice of such issues.
The real problem is that innocent people are dying on both sides , and although both sides claim some form of legitimacy for their actions it keeps coming back to that fact.

On a final note can i just point out somthing about dcombtives , the guy is on active service with the american armed services so ii can fully understand his points of veiw(even if i don't fully agree with all of them) , to be honest i'd be surprised, if not a little worried if he didn't come across as believing america is superiour militarily to any nation on the earth.
 
It was not a stupid or uneducated statement. The reality is that most of Europe really were not concerned about the Jews. To say other is a lie. Did some risk their lives? Certainly. But let's not pretend it was all of Europe, or even a very significant amount. My mom had cousins that were imprisoned and killed for supporting the Jews inside Germany as they are German. That certainly doesn't mean that the majority of Germans tried to prevent the Holocaust.
 
I would agree with this; I don't think criticism of Israel equates to an approval of Hezbollah or Hamas terrorists, at least not on the part of the average guy in the UK or the majority of posters here at MAP. Innocent people are dying and I think every one agrees this is a bad thing. What we don't agree on is just who is innocent or the best way to prevent future deaths.



It's not even a matter of superiority. I've said it on MAP and to my collegues at work many times: the average British soldier is better trained and better equipped than his American counterpart. The point I'm trying to make is there comes a time when everyone has to choose a side, often making a value judgement on the lesser of two evils. (kinda like our last Presidential election. Ok seriously though..) In that situation, you expect a person or on a grand scale, a gov't to choose to put the lives of their own ahead of the lives of others. I would argue that a gov't has a moral obligation to do so, and that if it didn't, it would have no reason to exist.
 
I do realize that the majority of UK people don't support terrorists. I was making a point by pseudo copying the statement about Americans supporting Israel and showing that since my statement was obviously stupid that the first statement was also obviously stupid.

My apologies if that was not clear.
 
Letting the limited comprehension comment slide for the moment, you have actually made a reasonable point. But given the choice I would sooner see 100 dead soldiers than 1 dead civilian regardless of nationality, the Israelis have an opposite viewpoint, and I daresay so do you.
 
Do you think Israel would agree to that? I dont think so, they are hell bent on doing it themselves.
 
It does not mean the ones that did nothing were happy to sit back either and in the countries I mentioned it was significant, industrial action, non co operation and direct action, youre assertion that the whole of Europe was Happy to see the Jews murdered was offensive and stupid, how can you deny it?
 
Apart from the suicide bombs, Israel commits all the above atrocities on a regular basis and gets away with it, but in this world for some strange reason the Lives of Muslims considered less than that of Israeli's, is this racism or what.

Just look at Lebanon now and ask yourself who is terrorising and killing civilians ?
 
I guess we would never know, because Lebanon or any of the other countries involved are never going to make the offer, are they? The closest was 6 years ago when they had an agreement that they would disarm Hezbollah. But we see how well that was kept.
 
Ok, happy was a bad choice of wording. I can see where you are coming from in taking it offensive. The phrase is usually said happy to sit back and watch. I used the phrase because it is a common phrase and most people seem to understand it. It means that the person views other things are more important than taking that action. It really doesn't mean that the person is happy or that they want it to happen.

A better way of saying it is that most of Europe was willing to take care of other matters, such as themselves, rather than take action that could have reduced the numbers of Jews that were killed in the holocaust. America essentially did the same thing. All the nations of the world truly placed a far lower priority on saving the Jews than they did on most other aspects of the war. Does that make it more clear?

The point is that Europe should not feel any less guilt about the Holocaust than America. Yet many of the guys from the UK seem to think the only reason for the US supporting Israel is collective guilt from not intervening earlier to prevent some of the Holocaust. But that doesn't really wash as Europe should have just as much guilt.
 
You mean apart from suicide bombs, starting the attacks, targeting children, not using some type of warning (such as pamphlets or sirens or news broadcasts) so that civilians have a chance to get out of the way, keeping their military targets away from their own civilians (although in a sense, that is protecting their military targets since the terrorists would much rather kill children than soldiers), not wearing uniforms so that they can claim afterwards they are civilians instead of the guy that was shooting at Israeli troops, etc. But the terrorists get all sorts of sympathy because the lives of Israelis are is considered less than that of Muslims. Isn't that what you really meant?
 
The distinction between Jew and Gentile is central to the Jewish belief system.

Here are a few quotes from the Talmud that the Israelis use as justification for their lack of respect for non-jewish life:

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2:11: "A Jew who killed a righteous gentile is not executed in a court of law. It says in Exodus 21:14, 'If a man schemes against his fellow man and kills the man deliberately, take him away from the altar and put him to death.' But a gentile is not considered a man, and even more so, a Jew is not executed for killing an unrighteous gentile."

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Hebrew University Professor Mordechai Nisan, basing his exposition on Maimonides, stated that a non-Jew permitted to reside in a land ruled by Jewish law "must accept paying a tax and suffering the humiliation of servitude. If Gentiles refuse to live a life of inferiority, then this signals their rebellion and the unavoidable necessity of Jewish warfare against their very presence.

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form." Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

According to Rabbi Israel Shahak who was a professor of Chemistry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and founder of the League for Human and Civil Rights in Israel the cause of the Israeli Defense Forces brutal treatment of the Palestinians is due to the ugly misinterpretation and misapplication of the teachings of the Talmud. He writes in his book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion":

"A book published by the Central Region Coofftopicnd of the Israeli army, whose area includes the West Bank, contains the following declaration by the coofftopicnd's chief chaplain: "When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to Halakah [Jewish law] they may and even should be killed." "Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized. In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakah to kill even good civilians."

Teachings like the above are what is being used to train the Israeli Defense Forces today. We should not be surprised by their actions.
 
Err... one minor point...
The allied forces were busy fighting a war on basically all fronts in case you forgot.

You've made it out like no one was doing anything to put a stop to Hitler and his attrocities (and yes that includes the treatment and enactment of genocide for the Jews).

You should be ashamed of yourself talking like that - for all the people from all the countries involved that gave their lives to stop Hitler from steamrolling the world. If they hadn't done that we could vey well be living a world where the Jews were slaughtered to extinction.

Take a five minute break from being MAP's Israeli mouthpiece to step down off your hobbyhorse and give credit where credit is due.
 
As I said, they were occupied with things that they felt were more important. They could have dropped bombs closer to the concentration camps but they didn't. They saw that other things were more important. It really is that simple.

Btw, you promised a certain gameplan that is still not been posted.
 
And in case you forgot, Hezebollah didn't call the Israelis and tell them to start them before they started firing the missiles at Israel. Kind of unlike the way Israel dropped the pamphlets telling them to get out of the way.
 
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