Palestenian-Israeli Conflict

You said it was a moot point. I said not really. I even quoted you when I said it.

I am not sure you are understanding. I never said that Israel was unique in it's conflict. Each of the confrontations you have listed are as much about religion and culture as anything. I believe that is at the heart of the problem in the middle east as well as the places you mentioned and Rwanda, Congo, ad nauseum. In many cases, the people burn and destroy what belongs to the enemy without even bothering to take for themselves.



What is the matter slip? Can't handle someone typing the same thing you did?

Seriously, how would you resolve the problem? Take all of the land that is Israel and give it to the Palestinians? Do you really think that will solve the problem? I don't. I believe the problems are more deep seated than that. I know I don't have an answer.

But do we apply that with other situations too? How far back do you go? Do we stop at the point of pre WWII or go further back?
 
Ok, I think I get what you are looking at. You took that comment as that I see Israeli/Palestinian conflict as unique. I was making the point that it isn't. I view it as more than a land issue in all of these types of conflicts. I think that if it was just a land issue, it could be resolved pretty simply and be done with it once and for all.
 
Here's a list of sites that confirms that

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/jews_against_zionism.html

there are plenty of Jewish people who have a problem with Israel's policies of abusing Palestinian human rights.
 
Yes but many of them including the Israel/Palestine issue have been launched off of land grabs. Face it... without the Jews grabbing Palestinian land the Palestinians wouldn't have much problem with Jews. Unless your privy to some information that the rest of us aren't I don't think the Palestinians had an agenda with the Jews of the world prior to getting robbed of their land.
If so... please enlighten.

If you think that the land is not the primary issue in the conflict then I am waiting for you to put up what you feel the primary issues are.

Please tell us... if land is not the issue... what is?
Have you been following middle east politics for any length of time?
Care to state what the primary goal of the Palestinians has been for some time now?

I'll give you a hint.. it's related to land.



Sure people do things like that.. but to keep on track here... we're talking about confrontations that happen primarily because of land... often pieces of land or countries where they have tried to establish arbitrary borders... ones that often get put in place irregardless of the reality on the ground. Israel is case and point.. it was established by Imperial Britain - that is to say it was given to the Jews when it wasn't their to give. Plain and simple. A big hint might be the fact that it was called Palestine since time immemorial.




err... hunh what?
Where have you typed the same thing I have?
Please qoute.


That would be a start.




Ok Mr. Deep-seated... I'm still waiting to hear your explanation of how you figure that it's really not about land. You've run on about this but I've yet to see anything credible to support this theory. Please enlighten.



How about we start with you just supporting your assertion that the conflict isn't about land.
 
Slip in history Palestine was never a country only a teritory, going back to old testement times. Doesn't mean it should not be a country now though.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/03/D8I0V6NG0.html

Yes Canada is now a target of Islamic terrorism. I guess its because they have been so supportive of Israel. It must be about land.

Whether you support Israel or not, there is evidence of Islamic terrorism on 9/11. There is no evidence Israel did it. There is no evidence Bush did it which hasn't stopped many people from believing it anyway.

There is also no evidece that I or any other Jew controls the media. If you say differently, a Jew from the IRS will show up at your house and audit you.

You can say Israel is rough on the Palestinans in response to suicide bombings but Israel is willing to move towards peace and the Hamas led Palestinan gov't isn't.
 
the Israelis are refusing to enter peace talks with Hamas until Hamas agree to recognise the state of Israel, which is like asking a gay man to start sleeping with women. Israel knows this and are using it to gain international support. Personally I despise the way Israel act, they've done some god awful things in the past, which far outweigh the Palestinians wrongdoings, because in most cases it was a small group of Palestinians who were engaged in terrorism, but it was the entire Israeli government who were sending in the attack helicopters to slaughter Palestinians in revenge.

It is Israel, not Hamas who are blocking the peace process.
 
How far back do you want to go? The crusades? When the Muslims took over most of the Middle East? When the Jews failed to get along with most of their neighors before the Roman Empire?

Land was involved. But I think religion and culture have been more of a sticking point than the land. The Jewish religion, Muslim religion, and Christianity all started in the area. Throw two of the largest religions in the world into conflict about what is holy in the area and you have conflict. Many Jews and Christians do not accept Muslims controlling the area. Many Muslims do not accept Jews controlling the area. All based on religion.

As you saw recently in the news, a person that converted to Christianity was in jail and could have been killed if many of the Muslim clerics had their way. That was based on the view that apostasy or conversion from Islam is punishable by death. Some Muslim Clerics hold that no land that have been controlled by Muslims can be controlled by other religions.



No. To keep on track, we are talking about confrontations that you think are primarily because of land and I think are more culturally or religiously motivated but of course also involve land for it's own sake.

When did it become known as Palestine? In AD 70 and 132, the Jews revolted and Rome kicked out the Jews and sought to eradicate any Jewish claim to the area. They renamed it to Palestine in order to do that.

When the Muslims took over the area, it was at least partly religious in their conquest. Their leaders, the caliphs, were considered to be the spiritual and temporal leaders of the muslims. They attacked the Jews in the 620's. Eventually, they controlled most of the Middle East. Yet, Muhammed according to some sources, originally thought the Jews and Christians would naturally join him as he claimed to be the successor of Jesus.



You said in post 531:


To which I replied in 533:


See how that works? You said it was convenient for the Jew to steal the land that they was given them by Britain and the League of Nations. I said that it would be convenient for the Palestinians to get the land that Israel developed.




Would you suggest doing the same with any other area that is in conflict? If not, why not? I can't see it being a legitimate idea to take the land from Israel if it doesn't happen to the other countries involved in these types of conflicts. Yet it seems to be suggested quite often that it should happen in this case. What makes either the Jews or Palestinians so special and unique?



Do you really think that religion and culture are irrelevant in this discussion? If so, at best you disagree with me on where the balance line is.
 
I think most would be satisfied with Palestine being a country and dividing the land between them and Israel if all the killing stopped. However, you are still going to have the few on both sides that would disagree.
 
How exactly would you negotiate peace with someone who refuses to recognize that you have a right to exist? If Hamas can't get that far, how will they ever get any further?
 
Just so you guys know what happened:
I split this off the Pentagon Strike thread and closed the old thread. This thread has moved on and I did not want to close the current converstation.
 
No- just closed the thread. The thread droped down to the second page of Off-Topic because it drops to the last posted date before the split. It's all still there.
 
That is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever heard. How can we negotiate a business deal if you don't recongnize me as a person? If the other person wants you dead?

Israel is not blocking peace. They continue to to give concessions left and right.
 
Israel had nothing to do with 9/11. They didn't plan it. They didn't do it. And they didn't benefit from it.

You can debate the existance of Israel until you blue in the face. Israel exists and it's not going away. Israel & Israeli citizens want peace. They just don't have any partners in it.
 
from the UK
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-06-03T125413Z_01_L03352884_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-BRITAIN-SHOT.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

from Canada
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060603/D8I11TKO0.html

I suppose Israel is attacking Britain and Canada now? Maybe its Bush? Maybe Canada and Britain are attacking themselves? Maybe its UFO's?
 
You are out of your mind. I for one applaud Israel's response to the Palestinian attacks. My only criticism is they don't hit the Palestinians hard enough. Damn those people and their accursed moon worshiping cult.
 
Sorry to rereply to this point if it has already been done, but here I go. The people fighting are not all muslims. They all have the same reasons to fight and they do so. Hint, hint...there are christians fighting alongside muslims. As for the killing of innocent people thing...it is wrong on both sides to do such a stupid thing. And they both do it on purpose which equals stupid jerks who deserve Allah's punishment in my book.
 
Its not necessary for Hamas to acknowledge the legitimacy of Israels government in order to hold peace talks. The Republicans in NI dont acknowledge the legitimacy of the crowns hold over Ulster but they can still engage in peace talks.

I havn't seen many concessions recently, since Sharon left the scene, its all been about Israel. Hamas won a fair democratic election and Israel immediately threw down a set of barriers because they didn't like the result. My personal feeling is that if the US wants to improve relations with the Middle East, then they need to slap Israel round the back of the head and tell them to pack it in and start acting in the best interests of the region.
 
You applaud attacking civilians and want to see it happen on a grander scale?
 
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