parents and non parents.

You're right. I dont think I personally would be a good parent. In fact I know I wouldnt. But havent you heard of some people say "the people who should have kids arent having them and the ones who shouldnt are?"

Even if I did like kids I wouldnt have one for that alone. And I dont think I need to be told to "grow up" by anyone. I wont tolerate it, either. My decision is quite mature actually.



Yeah same. Most of my fb friends are parents about like 98, 99% maybe. My best friends that I hang out with and love are parents. Yeah I rant on about kids and crappy parents. I would never not like somebody just because they are a parent and they love kids.
 
That's a weird argument.

I could say that I'm a far better cat owner than you, because I don't own a cat, therefore I can never harm my cat... which I don't have.

You CKNO (cat keeper, not owner).

I'm going to start a Facebook group about you sorts of people
 
Show that as a percentage of total parents globally - then see what an absolutely asinine point it is

Guess who inflicts the most cruelty cases against animals? Pet owners - anything to add?
 
Actually it's not really an argument so much asa classic bit of solipsism.

Of course parents are mostly the ones that do bad things to kids - they are the ones WITH the kids most of the time. It is right up there with saying that drivers and passengers are the ones most often inured in car crashes.

It is also just as true to say that it is mostly parents that do a lot of really great things for kids. There are some olympic level mental gymnastics going on here....

paul

p.s. Moi, the thing about attention and kids is kind of true - but if you really want a bunch of kids to get curious and pay attention to you the trick is to ignore them. Most kids are pretty used to people paying them attention, the opposite intrigues them - well, the ones I have been around anyway. We can start a 'parenting tactics' thread if we really want to get some serious controversy on! :-)
 
Nothing. Its true. I believ it. Its people who claim to love animals and have them that are more likely to abuse and neglect them.

Saw lots of cases of it in my nearly 35 years of life.

I also knew people who werent animals people and didnt have them. Didnt like animals. Cases of abuse among these people I knew? None.



go for it homie

people start fb groups and pages about everything under the big yellow sun. I see no reason why you shouldnt have 1.
 
Death and birth are a natural part of human existence,the longer you try to shield yourself from this truth ,the harder it will hit you and less well equipped to deal with it you will be when the time inevitably comes.
 
Likely because those who own animals have more of a chance to get frustrated with them. Someone one who owns no animals of course doesn't have nearly that time. My Wife and I have 5 dogs total and it's easy to get irritated with them. Really I think it just comes down to what kind of person you are. Realizing that small children, much like animals do not understand what they are doing and are not able to communicate the way we can when we get to talking ages is something that must be fully understood before owning a pet and certainly having a child.

Just having my little one for 10 days has been very trying, but we adapt and become more in touch with what they want based on how they cry, times they typically do things, etc. etc.

For me people would see my Wife and say "oh you look so great" and blah blah. I just came out one day in the process of discussing pregnancy before he got here and I just said " you know what? This isn't fun, it isn't cute, it's miserable! She's in pain all the time with her back, her hips, she's sick to her stomach or her ankles swell... it's always something". Then Gabriel was born and you sort of forget all of that. Of course then it was getting up every 2 hours or even more often and that was trying at first, but we got that worked out between she and I as far as getting a schedule.

Would I still want him if I had it to do all over again? Definitely now that he is here. Do we have the desire to have another child and go through it all again? Not in the least. One of us is getting fixed soon
 
My nieces and nephews take being ignored as a cue to do whatever they want. Which normally ends in a fight with someone getting hurt. It's a tactic that has to be used in context. For example if you put a kid on the "naughty step" and then ignore them. They get the message being bad equals isolation. Which they normally don't enjoy.
 
I believe it is. You asked who'd be willing to care for their parents in their old age. 24/7 caring is pretty much as full on as it gets. Feeding, cleaning, changing, taking care of medical needs and importantly loving, comforting and "caring".
 
While your decision not to have children may be mature the attitude that you have shown by your comments in this thread is far from mature.

This thread started with a mature discussion and people using examples however from what I've read your responses do not properly consider these at all or appear to respond or rebut to a point that no one has made. You appear to make no effort to take other views into account or consider that your point of view may not be the best one for you and others around you.

From your comments you appear to exhibit a very strong sense of close-mindedness that is anything but mature.
 
How about you learn context.

My point stands. You would not do it, you would pass the buck. You wouldn't put yourself out for them, those who you supposedly hold most dear.

Like I said selfish.



Blade this isn't about me, this is completely about you and the attitudes you have displayed, try to squirm all you like but it doesn't detract from your failings.

There are a few people on here who know me and know some of the things I'm involved in and my personal situation. I deal with lots of things that are difficult week in week out, both at home and in other areas I am involved, and that is only going to increase in the months to come.

I don't shy away from it even though some stuff is bloody difficult to cope with. I do this because being able to do what I do is a privilege as far as I'm concerned and so what if it means I have to go through a small time where I'm putting my needs aside for a while.

During that time I'm not the important one those I work with are.

The same goes for my son. He has various problems, nothing major as far as physical needs go certainly not compared to some. However there are plenty of times when he has difficulty during the night and one of us has to get up and deal with a wet bed and clothes.

He's a teenager, not a young toddler and physically he's like a young man. He also has problems eating certain things and will frequently have to spew things out because he can't deal with the texture. As for being sick well that's extremely hard going for him because he just can't cope with it like a typical child would do.

This won't stop and it's unlikely he will live independently on his own, he will be with us as a young adult and beyond.

So yes I will do it and do.
 
I climbed a mighty mountain, and looked down in disdain,
At those who stayed behind, whilst I claimed all the 'fame'.

It wasn't 'till much later, when I realised the truth,
I climbed up there for glory, to feel apart, aloof.

I climbed again when older, and this time didn't care,
The joy was in the journey, 'and no one ever heard.

Though my experience with quite a few grandparents, it became apparent to me that many parents used their children as some kind of 'token' or 'achievement' or attempted to live unfulfilled dreams through them. (That is not to say it is true for all, or even many).

But these grandparents told me (and its well documented that grandparents enjoyed grandparenthood more than parenthood. When asked why, most stated because they had no expectations, didn't have try push them for something or compare them to others, they simply enjoyed watching them being children, with no agenda, simply joy.

If any of you have seen the saddening documentaries on pageants, it becomes clear that some parents do use their children as some kind of 'badge of honor', or to live unfulfilled dreams.

My grandmother had 12 children. I've never once heard her talk of any kind of 'achievement' she had from bearing all these children (bearing in mind they where brought up in the post war recession, in Liverpool) each of them has done fine on thier own, and she has never once spoke about how parenthood has made her special. (even though during these times even feeding a small family was tough) She had no washing machine, no dryer, no iron, no sterilizer, no disposeable nappries, no refidgerator, no tv, almost nothing most modern parents take for granted) These things didnt exist at the time, in comparison a parent with one, two, even three children, have it incredibly easy.

I think if she can manage that, in those circumstances, parents these days with all the mod cons and support they get, can get on without telling people it was something special, rather than a simple biological fact of life, as a result of bumping uglies.
 
What support would that be?


Bringing a child into the world is something special. So much can go wrong during the pregnancy and even at birth.

During that time as a parent your heart is in your throat a good part of the time.

Keep in mind this isn't some project at work, it's not a hobby where you are model building. It's a human life, a child, for the parents that is something special it's in many ways their world.

If that is taken away the loss is unimaginable and devastating. Most have experienced loss on some level, the loss of a child is one of the worst types of bereavement.

Every child is special, disregard them and you disregard our future.

I haven't met people who wear parenthood as a badge of honour to standout from others but I have met plenty who simply want the best possible for their family, do they make mistakes? Of course they do.

Grandparents have the gift of hindsight, they've been there and done it just as when you have your second child you tend to be more relaxed than with the first.


If someon does start talking about how awesome it is being a parent then take it for what it is worth, an exclamation of joy at the fact that their son or daughter has made it into this world safe and sound and a reflection on the joy they feel at their bound with their children and what they feel on a deep personal level.

That connection is hard to understand until you have experienced it.

Why people get so uppity about others having kids and being proud I don't know.
 
Intensive care
disposable nappies
Sterilization aparatus
Washing machines
Dryers
Irons
Baby food (in jars)
Breast pumps
Social services
Information on demand via the internet
Modern hospitals and modern medicine

I could go on, suffice to day the whole range of things available now that was not available to my grandmother, who despite having 12 children never complained or claimed she was special for raising so many in such difficult circumstances (post war recession/depression)

My post was nothing to do with losing a child but those who complain about sleepless nights and slight hardships they endure are nothing compared to past generations. (Tell me you have never heard a parent complaining how 'hard' it is to raise a child, and that non-parents 'just don't understand')

If you want to talk about losing a child then that is a whole other area and is not something I was touching upon, as you can see from my post.
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I never claimed they was not.


Then you are lucky, watch any documentary on child pageants, and then tell me the same.




If any parent talks to me about how happy they are about bringing a child into the world, I am more than happy to share in that joy, but thats not quite what we was talking about is it?



You are assuming I haven't experienced it.



And there I think you lost the thread of the conversation.
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