[POLITICS] We are now represented by racists!!

Re: Southpaw

The thing is dude, those views are easily to counter if you spend some time looking at it from an objective perspective. Affirmative action policies are only in place because ethnic minorities were treated so badly. Ethnicity (and gender for that matter) specific professional associations were only formed to protect those groups from discrimination. Some of those groups are no longer needed but many still are.
If you really believe that the white men of this country are somehow being screwed, go look at the directors of the FTSE 100 companies and tell me just how many black directors there are in that list.

I'll give you a hint.

There's one. He was appointed in March of this year and he is the first black head of a FTSE100 company. Women don't fare much better. So if you really think that there is no need for ethnic minorities to be protected by these special groups, you are, quite frankly, delusional.
 
Martial novice posted



I know they must, and to be honest i'm not blaiming the migrants, but personally with our high unemployment can we really afford to let more migrants to come into the UK?



Ok bad example, i dont know much about music.



I remember doing my training at ryton for the police when we were told that we could not watch harry Enfield anymore because its was racist.

I think the police service now is falling over itself not to be seen as racist.

But the truth is that the goal of the black police officers association is to not have a black police officers association. In other words they want intergration. But by having a black police officers association kinds of leads to exclusivity rather than intergration.



She doesnt, shes just making a point.



I dont think its just members of the BNP who feel this way.



Its a pity then that the mainstream politicians dont have the answers. Oh wait they do, its called feathering your own nest by ripping off the public expenses.

Interestingly in our nation of free speech I wonder if the BNP will get invited to do an interview on BBC?

Garth
 
Fair play but I still have problems with it:
1. How does a group for black journalists for instance help things overall with regards to equality?

2. I seriously doubt jobs in general are as descriminated as they used to be. I don't doubt you at all that there are more white directors but this could be for a few factors: More white people in this country, just happened to be better suited, less minorites in that field of work? I dunno how likely that is mind. There still seems to be this idea that a woman or a minority person can't get a decent job and i think thats not true tbh and if it is i think there could be a reason for it, like maternity leave preventing women fomr getting hired or something, which does in some strange ways make sense even if I don't agree with them. I don't know maybe I'm just woefully ignorant of the world?
 
Yes. The ones we let in from outside the UK are trained in areas where we have skills shortages. Now it could be very well argued that the NHS deprives a lot of former colonies in Africa of good nurses, but the BNP seems reluctant to make that point. As for within the EU, I recall reading an article (probably in The Week or the Economist) that since the onset of the crunch, we have a net outflow as more workers return home.


You're probably right that they're focusing on the wrong things, but the issue needs to be addressed.

I think that's an admirable aim, but currently an association is needed. There are no longer suffragettes, but to disband them in the 1920s because the end goal was to not need the movement would have been a step backwards.


But the way she says it implies that it would be a reasonable suggestion which would be hounded out by the politically correct brigade. Whereas, it would not be a reasonable suggestion.


I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that's where they find support.


This was of course a cross-party phenomenon and lamentably another key reason for the widespread protest voting. No party currently in the Commons has come out of this shining.


His comments when the results were announced were on the major news broadcasts on BBC and Channel 4. I wouldn't be surpised if Griffin is interviewed by either of those as he has been before, though often in a group so a representative of every other party can point out where he's wrong.
 
I just thought I'd remind people of this.

People refer to the BNP as a racist party because it's, y'know, racist 'n' stuff?

The video of supporters that Garth posted is interesting and should be watched but more importantly listened to carefully by all concerned. It is a classic example of how the unacceptable is hidden in what might sound reasonable, but is betrayed by simple langauge, and how parties like the BNP work to gain support.

The woman makes all her points, starting off sounding reasonable and hence cushioning the less reasonable positions she takes as it goes on. The flaw in her logic throughout though is the use of "Us" and "them", "we" and "they". She appeals to an unstated sense of identity which excludes other groups. This implicit identity is, of course, "white". So the whole clip rests upon an opposition between white people and black people as clearly defined, homogenous, opposed groups.

This is demonstrably not true.

It also illustrates how these extreme parties work, by setting up "others" as the cause, focus, and (through their absence) solution to problems. Giving a population a simple and false sense of common identity by simultaneously giving them one or more hate figures to focus on is a ploy so old it seems incredible anyone gives it any credence.

Mitch
 
Mobo winners include Amy Winehouseand the Streets, Mobo guests include Monty Panesar, So no black music awards for only black artists there then.
 
To ensure that they aren't treated differently to other, paler, journalists. To hold organisations accountable for their behaviour, to give their employees somewhere to turn if they feel that their organisation is institutionally racist.


1 black head of a FTSE 100 company...ever. You cannot seriously suggest that population proportions account for that alone.
Women make up something like 8% of boardroom positions. That cannot be accounted for by a 6 month leave of absence for maternity leave and you cannot discriminate against a woman because she might have kids in the future - that is not right by any definition of the word.

People seem to think that because it's no longer acceptable to hang black men from trees or for husbands to rape their wives that we suddenly have this great equal society. We don't, not even close.
 
At least you ask questions. That puts you ahead of 90% of people who just put a cross in any old box without a clue about who or what they are voting for. Since you can't even vote yet, I'd say you're doing just fine.
 
haha wether its good or bad I would have gone ukip if i could vote. Whatever my posts might have shown I refuse to vote BNP
 
Southpaw in regards to why people compare the BNP to the Nazi's I think you need to consider the origins of the Nazi's. They weren't always invading other countries and killing millions of Jews, initially they were gathering support from everyday Germans by appealing to widespread xenophobia, racism and the general appeal of having a 'foreign' scapegoat that could be blamed for all the problems Germans faced. The BNP is in many respects promoting a very similar agenda, as you yourself recognised when you discussed how they focused on promoting fear in their promotional material. EDIT: Oh yeah and maybe also because the BNP draws a lot of support and a fair amount of hardcore members from Neo-Nazi groups.

And garth as for not being a BNP sympathiser let's face it... You are defending their positions and seem to be seriously downplaying their clear racist agenda. You might not vote for them and you might not be a member but you clearly are offering them a sympathetic ear.

You're also making increasingly bizarre arguments to portray them in a more favourable light than the mainstream parties for reasons I can't really grasp. I mean even with the expense scandals the mainstream parties are still much more appealing than a party whose scandals tend to involve being a front for neo-nazi's and racists!

Also, saying 'look reasonable people I know vote BNP so there' (I'm para-phrasing but you said basically this back at the start of the thread) is another really poor argument. In fact it leads me to raise a point that I think Southpaw will enjoy- do you think no reasonable people voted for the Nazis? No academics? No historians? No doctors? In fact scratch that, do you think you can name ANY fascist party that has absolutely NO support from any intellectuals?
 
C Kava posted


I dont think i'm trying to say that at all. My point is that in our society we have reached a point where, if someone stands up and says "We need to look at immigration" one is very likely to be labelled a racist.

In fact because of this fear we have become a society where we have to an extent rolled over and played the PC card.

My views personally are that as far as I am concerned being British is NOT just a white only society but a society made up of many cultures and races. We cannot seperate society as "Only whites allowed" because many people who are ethnic minorities have given a great deal to this country. Hell Indian soldiers were fighting for us in WW2, and were the first soldiers into Basra in 1940, The Poles had some of the best combat tactics in the air, and I also believe the Gurkhas have a place in our society due to their military heritage with this country (And yes I did sign the petition), And of course we should not exclude black people (Here i'm talking of people with an African descent, OK I know that means all of us but you know what i mean) who have a long history with Britain.

But the point is about immigration. One cannot deny that in the case of immigration we are the softest country in Europe, and before the recesion illegal immigrants were flocking here in their droves. and believe me as someone who has arrested illegal immigrants and then seen them let go because of the Home offices lack of interest in them, I find the whole thing quite disheartening.

I also agree that in an good economic climate we should employ workers from abroad, BUT not to the cost of our own workers. When British plumbers, labourers, bricklayers, (And I dont mean just white here) etc are getting laid off because someone from abroad will do it cheaper there is something fundamentally wrong with our system.



Well thats not my intention, and as I said I didnt vote BNP,

My point is however that using the BNP as an example, when you speek out about immigration you are labelled a nazi and/or a member of the BNP.



To be honest I dont trust any of them.

Garth
 
C Kava posted



As Robin Skinner and John Cleese pointed out in their book "Life and how to survive it" If you lived in 1936 in Germany the chances are you would be a member of the nazi party.

Garth
 
Well that settles it. I'm voting labour because I'm afraid of the consequences if I don't. Our hand is forced.
 
EXACTLY, which is why we have to confront, stamp, smash and crush every National Socialist idea presented because we cannot allow these values to reach a tipping point again where people just begin to blindly follow. If that means we suffer economically, so be it. We know where these ideas lead and before I allowed a national socialist government in the UK, I would take up arms.
Immigration is an issue, nobody disputes that and we have some of the strictest immigration laws in the world. The UK cannot survive in isolation, we do not have the resources, so we have to have an inclusive internationalist stance inorder to survive as a country. Thinking that the UK can somehow stand on it's own is so laughable that you would need to be a child to believe it. It's like UKIP, as if we even have a choice about EU integration. Why do you think even Thatcher who hated Europe pushed for further integration. She knew the reality, get in the game or die. We should be up to our necks in Europe and forcing true democratic change in the EU. Using our influence with the eastern European states to counter the Franco-German alliance that strangles all the other voices.
Never in history has isolationist policies EVER benefited a country either ecomonically or socially.

The Bear.
 
True enough on all counts.

When people vote for the BNP, they are voting for civil war.

Europe is a tricky issue, made worse by the fact that the government wont allow a proper debate on the subject - that lack of a debate effectively makes it really easy for UKIP et al to distribute misinformation.
 
Polar bear posted



In a way i agree with you, BUT there again does this mean because we cannot speak out against things like immigration because of this fear of being labelled a racist, and because we might slip back into whathappened in the 30s and 40 in German we loose our right to free speech.

The point is that back in the 1930s there were no similarities to draw on when looking at the extreme views as the nazi party so it was very easy to walk down the path of nazism not realising the cost to humanity.

Today we have that lesson there for us as a constant reminder, the problem is that now we have it, even if one takes one step down that path or even presents one view thats seen as aligning with what the nazis did then your a nazi.

So we have to very carefully walk this fine line, forever keeping our views in check or woe betide your labelled a nazi, or a member of the BNP etc etc.



Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you dont scenario.



Agianst who.

Its an interesting point you make about taking up arms, and its clear that the nazis did some terrible things in WW2 ie the murder of 6 million jews, gypsies and homosexuals amongst others. But the story here is not as clear cut as the evil nazis versus the valiant, good allies.

I have no doubt that if i lived in WW2 I would be of a mind to fight the nazi threat, but its not as clear cut as one might expect. But thats a different debate.



Really





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1567068/Record-immigration-sees-UK-population-soar.html



I dont think anyones saying we shouldnt trade with other nations.



And I thought i was paranoid.

But that begs a question then that if the franco German alliance is got the strangle hold should we be a part of it?



Yes you seem to be making a straw man argument. No one AFAIK has said we should limit trade with other nations.

Garth
 
Yes why all these cover ups?

The expense scandal, a cover up.

Weapons of mass destruction, a cover up.

What has happened to democracy?

Garth
 
reasoned debate should be encouraged, but that isn't what most people want. People want someone else to be responsible for their crappy lives.

The Naxis didn't promote their extreme views, they positioned themselves at the party of the working class. I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase 'German jobs for German workers' was used more than once.

Better to be overly cautious than risk repeating those mistakes.

The thing is, if you're free to express your views, I'm free to express my disgust at your views. Calling someone a fascist/nazi/BNP voter isn't suppressing their right to free speech.


Against anyone who is attempting to implement those policies. I for one will not stand by while ethnic cleansing takes place on my doorstep.

The Nazis didn't start off genocidal, it didn't start off as a tale of good vs evil.

It's not paranoia, anyone with even the most basic understanding of how the EU works knows that France and Germany effectively bully the smaller member states. Britain has been the only country that has provided effective opposition to their agenda.

Pulling out of the EU would make trading within Europe more difficult and expensive.
 
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