[POLITICS] We are now represented by racists!!

Now they have been voted into the European Parliament those two BNP members now receive the best part of a million pounds between them in wages and expenses for a year.
They will be getting bigger, better funded and more organised. If the present economical climate continues and the actions of rational people in government don't work people will start to look at the irrational for answers.
 
Europe isn't a cover up, it's remarkably transparent, but the government dont seem to want to engage UKIP et al in an actualy debate on it. I think this is odd because they would probably win it quite easily.
 
Uk population growth is far lower than global population growth. I agree wholeheartedly with population control however it need to be on a global scale and not a local. Our 60 millions are already well over what the land will naturally support. The problem here is we have longer living population having fewer children. Which means we have an economic pensions timebomb. The UK is using immigration as a means of putting this problem off by bring in young tax paying breeders into the country. So you stop immigration you collapse the economy sooner.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-German_cooperation




No your missing the point, you shut your doors and other nations start looking elsewhere for markets. How much trade do we do with North Korea? In order to stop immigration you need to tear up most of the treaties we have with other nations. That means you lose your trade agreements at the same time. That means you start having to pay import and export tarrifs, which makes UK business less competitive with other countries. You need to start applying for trade visas that slows down business deals. Then you've got travel vistas because you have blocked their citizens travelling to the UK, so they block yours. Multi-nationals start leaving because they can get to move workers around more easily in other countries. This is how it works, there are no isolated issues which is why no government can easily find a solution. Mr. BNP would collapse the country in a couple years is they ever got the chance to enact those policies.

The Bear.
 
To be honest I think that has been a completely abused system designed to encourage freedom to individuals and not the massive temporary immigration that it brought.
 
Funnily enough, it wasn't made for that. The EU is pretty much an economic project designed to spread and encourage the European brand of free trade. Alot of the very good social aspects that have been applied have been, in one way or another, a by-product of this economic rationale. The freedom of movement law was brought in to lessen illegal immigration and so EU countries' members are free to work in any EU country, therefore helping to fill skills shortages in certain countries (because a plumber isn't going to go to a country renowned for its overpopulation of plumbers, right?). So technically speaking, border controls don't exist for EU citizens. These people have become 'acceptable'. Now apart for some privilaged predominantly white countries such as the US and Australia, it's just every other country in the world that's the problem
 
I don't think that's true. For a start all the mainstream political parties also have policies on immigration which are not exactly along the lines of 'everyone's welcome'- in fact don't most of them right now advocate a 'cracking down' on immigration?

Second, much of the immigration that people oppose is part and parcel of being a member of the EU. Brits move to Spain in droves and Poles come to the UK for jobs... sorry but that's the kind of thing that's going to happen if you remove barriers in an effort to try and make Europe more united. It will mean that things change but tough... that's what happens. When the Irish immigrated to America they were widely hated, now they are dearly loved, every new wave of immigration is opposed in the beginning.

And no this doesn't mean that no border control should be attempted or that immigration levels aren't an issue worth addressing it just means that the world changes and we have to be prepared for that.



Is this true though? Can you provide reliable sources that back up what your saying about Britain being 'the softest country in Europe' in regards immigration. Having a quick scally through some links on immigration I'm not finding figures that support that. Where are you getting your info from?


Welcome to capitalism. If the fundamental fault is that people hire those offering to do the same job for cheaper then I hope you are also consistently up in arms about British companies setting up factories in third world countries.


No you aren't. You are labelled as sympathetic to the BNP when you defend them and their policies. That's fair enough. Also, I presume you are aware garth that the defence you are attempting to use is the EXACT same one that the BNP uses to defend it's positions? Essentially it is reverse labelling all critics as just being overtly PC when this is usually not the case.

I have very little time for PC positions but I have no problem with recognising that the BNP are a racist party, promoting a racist agenda and that their stance on immigration is farcical.
 
Polar Bear posted



No really, I never would have thought that.

So Uk population is lower than the global population growth, thats all the countries together right. Or have you phrased that wrongly?

Garth
 
HolyheadJTC posted



Exactly, and we have to ask ourselves why?

Is it because the British people were never consulted if we wanted to enter it in the first place, even though time and again people, and other parties called for a referendum on it?

Garth
 
Fact is, most people have no interest in learning about why Europe is important to the UK. Most people have some deluded idea that Britain is too grand and wonderful for Europe. This is not the kind of thing that you have a referendum on because the people will screw it up. You want a good example of where the people got it wrong, look at California and prop 8. Now imagine the British people making that kind of mistake on an economic matter.
No thanks, I like my policy makers sober and educated.
 
Yeah all the parties call for a referendum when in opposition and suddenly when in power they all start lookng at their toes. The truth they don't want to have to tell the public is that there is no choice. We will have the Euro and there will be a European state eventually whether we like it or not.

The Bear.
 
Polar Bear posted


The reason we dont trade with North Korea has little to do with their closed door policy. A lot has to do with UN sanctions following a missile test in 2006, and the fact that many nations suspect them of selling arms, and breaking rules on nuclear testing.

The US traeasury brought N Koreas International finances to a halt in Macau by cracking down on suspected illicit financial activities.

Put bluntly we dont trust them, it has nothing to do with immigration.

In fact in contrast Japan has been one country with the toughest immigration laws.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration

yet it doesnt seem to have any problem with world trade.

Garth
 
Are you kidding me? Japan has been in economic decline for almost two decades. Last year it's ecomony contracted 13.2%. Could you imagine a 13.2% contraction in UK? There would be civil unrest.

The Bear
 
Holyheadjch posted



Right so in your view the British public are too stupid to comment on it. Right



Yes thats more liike it, good old democracy at work.

Garth
 
Polar Bear posted


Most countries are at the moment in economic decline not just Japan.

But can you give me a source for that statistic?

Garth
 
Two fold here. I think there's no point holding a referendum as I don't think your average citizen can fully comprehend everything the EU is and does. I know I don't. But I don't think its that people think we're too good for Europe, I personally just don't like how Europe can make us take on laws and seem to get a big say on how the country is run. I think thats why people are unhappy with the EU not dellusions of us being to grand
 
A great example to the contrary is those who argue we should keep the pound for fear of losing the Queen's head...
 
No I think that fits into my arguement of the EU enforcing rules to turn it nto an EU state rather than a trade agreement like it was supposed to be
 
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. I don't want construction workers making decisions on complicated economic and political matters any more than I want David Milliband to make decisions on what type of loft insulation I should choose.

I dont think I know enough about the ins and outs of European democracy to make that judgement and I am sure I know a lot more about it than the vast majority of the people in this country.
 
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