Refusing to go to War (edit)

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bobbins

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i live in te US, and i have heard a lot of times people say that because you live in this country, if they asked you to fight, let's say in Iraq, you gotta go cause you live here. man, that's bs. if you don't want to fight in a war, you don't have too, is up to you. i have had some discussions before with several people saying this, but this is what i think. so, if the country you lived in asked you to fight in a war far away and said you had to cause you live there, would you go?
 
Ask some of your elders about conscription!

Generally war is best left to the professional soldiers....conscripts are usually cannon fodder.
 
The US has used conscription in the past...

Would they get away with it now... I doubt it. There military is large enough at this point (espically when you inclue National Guard and what not) that I seriously doubt they would ever need to.

But that said yes in the past they have literally forced normal people to fight int heir wars.
 
Lots of countres still use conscription.

I think i saw on the news theres a growing concern about the number of people who where dooped into joining the military in the US, but im not american so i dont know much about it.
 
P-ken]i live in te US, and i have heard a lot of times people say that because you live in this country, if they asked you to fight, let's say in Iraq, you gotta go cause you live here. man, that's bs. if you don't want to fight in a war, you don't have too, is up to you. i have had some discussions before with several people saying this, but this is what i think. so, if the country you lived in asked you to fight in a war far away and said you had to cause you live there, would you go?[/QUOTE]
..that if there is a War anywere its the US who goes to it or even starts it-aka Iraq-and sadly, instead of being unpatriotic people, especially the younger generation seems to have no second thoughts of volunteering to get killed or even think that what the president of the country is doing might actually be wrong in the first place. That creates enemies in other countries and it also shows a little bit of naiveness on the part of the US population. Concerning the question you ask about, if my country would ask me to go to War, NO I wouldn't go !!! Especially as in the "cause" of the US it was proven it was all a bunch of lies. So tell me, would you go to War based on a bunch of lies ? I certainly wouldn't. But hey, I wouldn't go to War, period. I don't want to have the guilty conscience of having killed someone just because some president told me to do so.
 
In Iraq though, the people that went out to fight were all professional soldiers weren't they? They were doing the job they were hired to do and getting paid for it. Also I think there is something that we shouldn't forget here and that is our armed forces don't do anything simply because a President / Prime Minister tells them to do it. Politicians work for you. They may have other ideas of course but at the end of the day, they're only there if you put them there and if you disagree with them then it's your duty as the boss to tell them... loudly!

I hate to admit it but I think we're all responsible for what has happened in Iraq.
 
Politicians work for you. They may have other ideas of course but at the end of the day, they're only there if you put them there and if you disagree with them then it's your duty as the boss to tell them... loudly!==Well, sorry to say this but if that is the case why have so many Americans AGAIN voted for Goerge Bush ? They saw what he did with Iraq and yes, he send professional soldiers out there that got paid but this people also were young once and made the choice to be soldiers...and to listen to orders given to them.

I hate to admit it but I think we're all responsible for what has happened in Iraq.[/QUOTE]==No sorry, I don't agree with you on this one. Why ? Do you remember that France, Germany and numerous other countries tried to stop the US from invading Iraq ? These countries at this moment don't have to share any responsibility for what has happened in iraq because they were aware of the consequences. It would be good though if the US would face up to the consequences and stop sending troops and soldiers to Iraq that face a certain death looking at the constant bombing still happening. And maybe learn that trying to change another country and even attempt to convert them to Christianity is none of their business. The + 1,000 dead troops until now in Iraq are all the responsibility of the US, no one else. As is the invasion of Iraq.
 
Yes I do remember. I have a lot of respect for the countries that stood up to Britain and the United States in the UN before the war started. It wasn't enough though was it.

As it happens, my comments weren't intended to include France, Germany and the myriad of other countries that opposed the war. I was just stating that Tony & George wanted a war, Tony & George work for us.
 
There's always room for one more conscientious objector in Canada.

Go on GO!!!

Also I edited your title due to MAP TOS
Profanity: 4.1.1 This includes attempts to disguise profanity by using *s to mask letters or by the use of acronyms and abbreviations.
 
==As you just said, Tony & Goerge wanted a War, but did we ? Meaning, the population of the US and GB ? Remember the reaction here at that time, we were actually opposed to it and he still decided to go ahead. Sorry to everyone here, by the way, I have very strong views about this whole thing. If I went a bit of topic, that wasn't intended.
 
I think that if you've made a commitment to work for the armed forces then you should go. I also think though that this commitment is often made by people who are not able to understand what they're getting themselves into. I don't know what minimum age for entry into the armed forces in the States is but here it's something like 16/17. In this century, IMO, that's too young. I'd love to hear the views of someone who has seen action BTW. These are the people who actually know I think.


TP- I'd be happy to debate your topic on another thread if you want to start one. I don't want my wrists slapped by mods just yet 'coz I'm too new
 
You are right, if you don't want to fight in a war you don't have to...don't join the military! When was the last time civilians were shipped off to fight instead of the military? For me it would depend on what we were fighting for...if it was going to hunt down the *insert many explitives here* who attacked OUR soil by flying planes into the Trade Towers my answer would be Hell Yes, in a heartbeat! We were attacked and it is my patriotic duty to defend my home. As for fighting in Iraq, no.
 
==I love patriotism.
(actually I don't but want to keep this post light) But sorry to correct you on this, it wasn't Mr. Saddam Hussain, whos country the US invaded, who flew those planes into the towers. And even if it was that case, I would not have gone to War with him...or did you see anyone from Germany, France, etc. go to War with Iraq or even Osama Bin Laden because people from those countries were killed. The saying:"eye for an eye." doesn't quite solve alot here, actually enrages the attacker more. Aren't we taught in MA to defend ourselves ? So is attacking another country a self-defense ? Not in my eye.

I agree by the way with jonmonk that people often don't understand what they're getting themselves into when they enlist. Especially as not only are they often very young but also, and thats the really sad bit, don't have any other choice to make a living.
 
There sure is. We have plenty of room for people who don't agree with illegal and unjust wars. Would I personally go to war? Probably not. Then again, I can quite proudly say that I don't really see my government starting a foreign war that I don't support, and I don't worry about being sent overseas to fight somewhere for oil or other political gains. If the security of my country was at stake, then yeah, I might join up. There's no way I'd become a "global policeman" though.
 
I never said it was Saddam...that is why I wouldn't go to Iraq to fight this war. However, if someone attacks me (be it personally, my family, with gun/knife/hand/whatever) I will come back on them 10 fold, that is part of self defense to me...eliminate the threat. Accountability, it seems is lacking in todays society as a whole IMHO. How will anything ever get solved if those accountable weren't put to justice? That being said, an eye for an eye....well how far back do we want to go with this? Do we start with the begining of time, last century, last month? We depend on our governments to protect us. They have more information than we, and we as the populus don't need that much information, we are the ones electing them. But I still wouldn't trust politicians as far as I can throw one.
 
Re:



vs.



I'm not sure I entirely understood your post, its possible from what you wrote that you were refering to this already. Anyway, I understand that the purpose of the Eye for an eye thing was to prevent people from 'coming back on them 10 fold'. It was a call for restraint saying, let the punishment fit the crime. Well, that's how I remember it anyway.
 
OK, let me clarify my statement. I would come back on anyone 10 fold who attacks me, my family etc. As for the eye for an eye comment, I was referring to the whole who started the chain of events that led to the WTC attacks, and how far back do we go to see who is in the right? What I mean by this is simple...do we look at each individual attack and retaliate, do we look into the history books and go from there? What is the reference point? I mean hell, if you want to look at it as a Christian vs. Islam deal we can go back to the Crusades...where does it start/stop? I also think that if there is gonna be a fight do it with military force, and keep the civilian loss of life to a minimum...dont' attack the civilians and get pissed when the military comes crashing down on your head. Hope this helps.
 
Hyo said:
I never said it was Saddam...that is why I wouldn't go to Iraq to fight this war. However, if someone attacks me (be it personally, my family, with gun/knife/hand/whatever) I will come back on them 10 fold, that is part of self defense to me...eliminate the threat. ==If someone attacks me or my family with gun/knife/hand/whatever I would remember the first rule in Karate: To defend myself with any means I've learned possible. But coming back on them 10 fold is something I would never think anyone should be doing. What makes your reaction to the action not the same as the action beforehand ? Wouldn't that make you the same kind of person as the attacker ? If we were to constantly base everything on a "reaction-action" circle we could be reacting to Hitler killing Jews,even so far as WWI or WWII. But our society has modernised meaning maybe all of us should remember that even those people in Iraq, any Middle Eastern country for that matter, are human beings just like us. Just because there is some deranged psycho who feels like killing people do we have to return the favour ? That keeps on going in circles and instead of solving a problem you further increase it.

In a fight when your opponent has hit you, of course you hit back but if he/she is down do you keep on pounding on them ? And don't you logically expect that that person will try to hit you back again ? So why keep hitting them ? Another rule of Karate states that you should try to get yourselves out of fights by either running away or talking. And NOT to start a fight as that is a major rule breaker in any dojo. Fighting doesn't solve anything, it only further aggrevates a situation. My sensei is a great example of somone who knows how to fight (and really good too)but avoids fights by any means. We often have poeple coming in our dojo looking for fights with a black belt. You know what he does ? Tells them, kindly, to leave the dojo. And tells them that they are on premises they aren't allowed to be on. And often they leave because they are looking for a fight, not someone talking kindly to them.

Just my point of view. Christian
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