Thread split - homeschooling

An interesting point I thought I'd bring up. At the university of Chicago, incoming students can take a placement test that decides how they will be placed in math, physics, and chemistry. The placement test is just a math test. They found such an incredibly high correlation between math scores and the scores on chemistry and physics placement tests that they only administer the one now.
 
This is turning in to one of those circular arguments that no ones going to really win. Our local school union wanted a huge pay raise and the school board offered to give it to them if they would tie the raises into success in the classroom, the teachers flat out refused it saying that since they are licensed, the public had no "obligation" to review their contracts....suspicious to me....
 
Texas tried that, and frankly, it really didn't work. All that happened is a few successful teachers hoarded what they knew and didn't share teaching tips with others. Or so they say, I haven't taught in that environment. I do know that where I have taught, the teachers had a close professional relationship between one another and shared tips and stratigies readily. So, I see bonuses and negatives on each side of that arguement.

This is a circular arguement, one which is getting tireing. But I guess its better to argue over the net then to annoy our families with an incessant need to debate.
 
Continuing that thought, tell me why you believe that government regulation would help me. I’ll bait you a little, so you’ll understand the question.

[begin bait]
SAT and ACT scores have been going down over time for some decades now, in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. But you like government regulation all the same.

American students are consistently at the bottom of international exams on all subjects in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. But you like government regulation all the same.

American students consistently score low on uniform exams given by domestic education groups (e.g., geography tests given to 8th graders across America, history tests given to 12th graders across America), and this in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. But you like government regulation all the same.

American 3rd graders can’t read in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. President Bill Clinton said so. He made a big fuss about it. But you like government regulation all the same.

American high school graduates don’t know English graofftopicr. My brother who is a college professor in Minnesota sees this with every assignment. I’ve seen it in my work places both from colleagues and from clients. This is in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. But you like government regulation all the same.

Some schools in California, where I lived a few years ago, have metal detectors and roving security guards on the campus because schools are dangerous to the bodily health of students, in spite of (or because of?) government regulation to the contrary. But you like government regulation all the same and you want students who can’t afford private-school tuition to attend these same dangerous public schools where metal detectors and guards are needed.

Schools in Indiana, where I used to live, send students to college who cannot manipulate fractions or do trigonometry or do elementary algebra, in spite of (or because of?) government regulation of public schools. I saw it. I was a math teacher at an Indiana college. But you like government regulation all the same.

You stated a couple times already that the most important factor in education is parental involvement, but yet, at the same time, you don’t want this most important factor, parents, in charge of education. You want the same government that gave us all of the problems listed above in charge of education.

I genuinely do not know why you want more of that which has caused all of these problems and less of the thing that you admitted is best for education. Your conclusions that (1) government regulation is good, and (2) more government regulation is needed, and (3) parents should not be in charge of the development of their children, is contrary to everything that I ever learned about logic.
[end bait]

I hope that puts a clear foundation for my question. It’s a sincere question. I genuinely, truly, do not understand why you would possibly, even a little bit, want more government regulation of education. I want less government regulation.
 
I don't want more, I want some.

Some regulation is a good thing. Case in point: Five years ago, science was not tested as a part of the exiting highschool graduation tests. Because of that, science programs became woofully inadiquate. Now, schools have become acountable for their science programs, in response, schools are investing in lab equipment and making sure that their science teachers are more highly qualified. Texas now has the highest science standards in the nation. We are still suffering growing pains, but if we continue our tract, we can go a fair way into gaining a much better education system. I would consider this a positive outcome of regulation. Can you over regulate? Undoubtedly. Can you under regulate? Undoubtedly.

I wonder every day what happened to our education system. In part, the work changed and other countries recognized this change and brought about changes of their own. America was just much slower to move with the times. Why? America has become very conservative. Part of a by product of conservativism seems to be a resistance to change. Also, Americans are very xenophobic. By the time we realized that other countries were worth compeating with, we were already on the slide downward.

Parents, despite all their best intentions do not always know best for their children. I encounter this every day. Not to point fingers, but sometimes, it takes a less involved professional to be able to stand back and make the hard choices.
 
wrydolphin said:
Parents, despite all their best intentions do not always know best for their children.
Very true, but then who is most qualified to decide what is best for a child?

I was enrolled in public school from grades K-6 before I began homeschooling. I graduated from high school in May of 2004, and I am currently a college student at the University I wanted to attend! And I have to say, this year has been awesome for me. I never had a lack of socialization as a homeschooled child, and I don't think I've ever had socialization problems. (Though of course since it's from my own perspective you never know... every kid is shy at times ) I have a circle of friends at the University, and I keep in touch with my family back home. I still have all of my friends from highschool, and I see them nearly every weekend! (Including everyone from my dojang, where I continue to train.) I was a very active kid... I spent 10 years in 4-H (where I excelled, I was a Wisconsin 4-H delegate to Washington my last year), I had a part-time job for 3 years with great coworkers, interacted with everyone in my local homeschool group, and 3 years ago begain training in MA (which has been great for me.)

And yes. College was a big adjustment. A big one. But it was a big adjustment for just about every freshman I know. Being away from home (I live on campus), new situations, new people, rearranging all my priorities... it was tough. But I've pulled through! Honestly, in some ways home education was an advantage for me. Especially when it comes to scheduling my free-time. You don't spend a ton of time in class, a lot of 'study time' is your own perogative. No one stands over your shoulder and says "do your homework." I'm used to that. It's like a continuation for me in some ways. And are things different in college classes? Yes! But I think I did ok here... I made honors for my first semester (still finishing the second) and I just got inducted into a freshman honor society on campus. There are things I could have done better, but I'm learning to balance my home-life, my new friends and old ones, Martial Arts, and all of my classes. So in all honestly I'm fairly happy with how I'm doing. And I don't think I'm a unique example...

As far as socialization in high school goes... how many of you who are now adults still keep in touch with your old crowd from high school? You drift apart, things change. Most adults I know keep in touch with one or two... maybe a few more. Your priorities change. So what's the big deal about knowing a ton of people in H.S.? You don't have much in common with most of them anyway... I think it is really important to socialize in H.S., I just think there are more ways to do it than just public school. If you truly want to make an effort you will. And I do believe I read a remark about the opposite sex... ok. I didn't do a lot of dating in H.S., but I don't think I missed out on a lot by not doing it. I got 'asked out' quite a lot actually, but I just wasn't interested the whole 'go out two weeks, then have a messy breakup' thing. (Which a lot of my friends from public school were going through.) I now have a steady boyfriend who I trust and respects me. Dating was never a problem for me.

So far that's my experience as a home schooler. Just one person. And I'm not a perfect example, but I'm out there in the world doing the best I can with what I've been given. And I owe a lot to my parents for the firm educational foundation I can build whatever I want for my future on.
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P.S. Sorry for the long post... didn't mean to get carried away. Feel free to skim, lol.
 
Here is a recent article I found:

Here is an excerpt from a recent study of homeschoolers: "According to a report published by the Educational Resources Information Center (ERIC) and funded by the Office of Educational Research and Improvement, U.S. Department of Education, homeschool student achievement test scores were exceptionally high. The median scores for every subtest at every grade were well above those of public and Catholic/private-school students. On average, homeschool students in grades one to four performed one grade level above their age-level public/private school peers on achievement tests. Students who had been homeschooled their entire academic life had higher scholastic achievement test scores than students who had also attended other educational programs."

One interesting facet of the study noted that academic achievement was equally high regardless of whether the student was enrolled in a full-service curriculum, or whether the parent had a state-issued teaching certificate.

The study states, "Even with a conservative analysis of the data, the achievement levels of the homeschool students in the study were exceptional. Within each grade level and each skill area, the median scores for homeschool students fell between the 70th and 80th percentile of students nationwide and between the 60th and 70th percentile of Catholic/Private school students. For younger students, this is a one year lead. By the time homeschool students are in 8th grade, they are four years ahead of their public/private school counterparts."

Also, "Homeschool students did quite well in 1998 on the ACT college entrance examination. They had an average ACT composite score of 22.8 which is .38 standard deviations above the national ACT average of 21.0 (ACT, 1998). This places the average homeschool student in the 65th percentile of all ACT test takers."

Also, be sure to visit the National Home Education Research Institute at www.nheri.org for more information.
 
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