US embassies attacked
- Thread starter ConnorB
- Start date
sissysayshey
New member
I can assure you that it wasn't big, and it wasn't clever.
GRLPOWERtt
New member
Probably going to take me 20 to 30 minutes to reply, im not ignoring so bear with me.
Raz
Raz
I don't know MANY Muslims but the few I do know seem to be the exact opposite of what we see on TV and read about in the media. But then again I'm sure that not every Christian rode off to the Crusades.
I'm quite sure the worst time to use a sweeping generalization is when it comes to religious beliefs. There are fanatics and extremists in nearly every religion I can think of. And its unfortunate that they're usually the ones in the spotlight instead of the ones preaching peace and unity.
Like Westboro, if they were taken as an example of what every Christian church - or even just what every Baptist church was like that would be a GROSS misjudgement, right?
I'm quite sure the worst time to use a sweeping generalization is when it comes to religious beliefs. There are fanatics and extremists in nearly every religion I can think of. And its unfortunate that they're usually the ones in the spotlight instead of the ones preaching peace and unity.
Like Westboro, if they were taken as an example of what every Christian church - or even just what every Baptist church was like that would be a GROSS misjudgement, right?
reddhotz2000
New member
Quote:
Clearly we have different scales of religious people and how commited they are to the literal translations, and in the center we have people who are really, really, down to their toes, committed to religious principles, you know like the Jews who were all the items suggested in the Torah,*
these religious principles actually are different as you move from religion to religion. I mean, no matter how fanatical someone becomes as a Jain,*
the core principle of which is peace they’re not going to fly an airplane into a building over their humiliation or grievances, because it would be repudiation of everything that they’ve organized their life around. Its against their fundemental beleifs.
And so it matters that at the core of Islam there are principles like martyrdom and Jihad. It really matters that Islam views itself as a religion that will be victorious in this world, politically and materially, there will be a true Islamification of the planet. That people will either convert or die, or*
Christians and Jews will live as, it’s called Dhimi, (I think?) as some kind of apartheid situation where they bpay a protection tax, this is the view of moral order that you get from Islam. I it really is, it’s not*
the crazy Al-Qaeda, “I just went to a training camp in Afghanistan Islam”, it is mainstream Islam.
Okay, since you know so much about Islam, tell me what my fundamental beliefs are. Explain to me what Jihad is, and how you came to the conclusion that "mainstream" Islam wants people to either convert or die?*
I understand Jihad to mean a couple of things, one being that of inner struggle to comply with the Quran, or the will of Allah.
Though from what I know.. I may be wrong I have only been looking into this the past year or so, and if im wrong in anything I type please correct me providing a link so I can look into it further.
From
Jonathon Berkey's book The Formation of Islam. He states that -paraphrasing- the Quran didn;t originally talk about Jihad
He states that later on, it encourages the use of Jihad against non-Muslims and becomes more prevelant.
it is also found in the Hadith where it states that the highest kind of Jihad, is "“The person who is killed whilst spilling the last of his blood.”
I know there are various Hadiths and if you wish me to source the exact's I shall endevaour to do so if you, though anything I write here I submit in good faith.
Some more verses I have written down in note form, if you have a minute to explain to me how im misunderstanding them.
“Those that deny God’s revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge” (3:5).
“As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God’s judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire” (3:10)
“Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Uofftopich (nation) dominate all that I saw.”(Saheeh Muslim, hadeeth #2889)
It is he (Allah) who has sent his Messenger (saw) with guidance and the religion of truth, in order for it to be dominant over all other religions, even though the Mushrikoon (disbelievers) hate it.”(EMQ at-Tawbah, 9: 33)
Now how does this not show an intention of domination? Or do you not accept the Hadiths.
That's straight-up Islamaphobia. Let's lump every Muslim family that has over three kids into the "many" category, and call the deceptive human beings. I am not saying people like that don't exist, but many is a MAJOR overstatement (and even then I am understating it).* -
I think this is a matter of opinion, I am unaware of were you live in the world. If you come to the UK, visit places like Bradford, Wolverhampton. You will see examples of this.
---From what I understand ,and you obviously have more knowledge than me, looking at the verses above as example, the core teachings here when it comes to Islams place in the world is eventual domination.
No, it's not that hard to tell. I am beginning to wonder if you ever met a Muslim before
Ok are members of Al Shibab, true Muslims? Or members of ETA , true Muslims?
Are those who were trying to attack the girl in Pakistan for alleged “Blasphemy” true Muslims?
If not, what gives you the authority to make that decision?
http://rt.com/news/pakistan-blasphemy-girl-released-672/
Clearly we have different scales of religious people and how commited they are to the literal translations, and in the center we have people who are really, really, down to their toes, committed to religious principles, you know like the Jews who were all the items suggested in the Torah,*
these religious principles actually are different as you move from religion to religion. I mean, no matter how fanatical someone becomes as a Jain,*
the core principle of which is peace they’re not going to fly an airplane into a building over their humiliation or grievances, because it would be repudiation of everything that they’ve organized their life around. Its against their fundemental beleifs.
And so it matters that at the core of Islam there are principles like martyrdom and Jihad. It really matters that Islam views itself as a religion that will be victorious in this world, politically and materially, there will be a true Islamification of the planet. That people will either convert or die, or*
Christians and Jews will live as, it’s called Dhimi, (I think?) as some kind of apartheid situation where they bpay a protection tax, this is the view of moral order that you get from Islam. I it really is, it’s not*
the crazy Al-Qaeda, “I just went to a training camp in Afghanistan Islam”, it is mainstream Islam.
Okay, since you know so much about Islam, tell me what my fundamental beliefs are. Explain to me what Jihad is, and how you came to the conclusion that "mainstream" Islam wants people to either convert or die?*
I understand Jihad to mean a couple of things, one being that of inner struggle to comply with the Quran, or the will of Allah.
Though from what I know.. I may be wrong I have only been looking into this the past year or so, and if im wrong in anything I type please correct me providing a link so I can look into it further.
From
Jonathon Berkey's book The Formation of Islam. He states that -paraphrasing- the Quran didn;t originally talk about Jihad
He states that later on, it encourages the use of Jihad against non-Muslims and becomes more prevelant.
it is also found in the Hadith where it states that the highest kind of Jihad, is "“The person who is killed whilst spilling the last of his blood.”
I know there are various Hadiths and if you wish me to source the exact's I shall endevaour to do so if you, though anything I write here I submit in good faith.
Some more verses I have written down in note form, if you have a minute to explain to me how im misunderstanding them.
“Those that deny God’s revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge” (3:5).
“As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God’s judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire” (3:10)
“Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Uofftopich (nation) dominate all that I saw.”(Saheeh Muslim, hadeeth #2889)
It is he (Allah) who has sent his Messenger (saw) with guidance and the religion of truth, in order for it to be dominant over all other religions, even though the Mushrikoon (disbelievers) hate it.”(EMQ at-Tawbah, 9: 33)
Now how does this not show an intention of domination? Or do you not accept the Hadiths.
That's straight-up Islamaphobia. Let's lump every Muslim family that has over three kids into the "many" category, and call the deceptive human beings. I am not saying people like that don't exist, but many is a MAJOR overstatement (and even then I am understating it).* -
I think this is a matter of opinion, I am unaware of were you live in the world. If you come to the UK, visit places like Bradford, Wolverhampton. You will see examples of this.
---From what I understand ,and you obviously have more knowledge than me, looking at the verses above as example, the core teachings here when it comes to Islams place in the world is eventual domination.
No, it's not that hard to tell. I am beginning to wonder if you ever met a Muslim before
Ok are members of Al Shibab, true Muslims? Or members of ETA , true Muslims?
Are those who were trying to attack the girl in Pakistan for alleged “Blasphemy” true Muslims?
If not, what gives you the authority to make that decision?
http://rt.com/news/pakistan-blasphemy-girl-released-672/
gftobecom
New member
Some of the manuscripts the MAP scribes made of MAPchat shall never be allowed to be seen in public. Llamageddon remembers some of those evenings *shudder*
As a general point about this thread I think it's important to use language carefully.
You can't talk about "Muslims" as a homogeneous block any more than you can for Christians, atheists or anybody else. My friend Derek (Christian) probably has more in common with moderate Muslims than he does with that lunatic pastor from the States who wanted an International Burn the Quran day or the loonies who picket soldiers funerals with signs saying it's God's verdict on America that they're dead.
Similarly, my Muslim friends have less in common with a violent mob in Libya than they do with moderate Jews in Leominster.
The truth is that these reactions are generally culturally generated, not soundly based in religion. Poor, badly educated people with little or no access to the outside world whose lives are hard and who are guided by religious zealots tend to do stuff the rest of us find horrific.
But if you live in the cultural equivalent of the Dark Ages then that's no surprise. Going back to my Christian example, the real surprise is that there are some living in a generally educated and informed country like the US who have such extreme views.
Even then, we must allow for the fact that they are the tiniest of minorities, and are held in check by a rule of law that simply does not apply in countries like Pakistan or Libya.
Mitch
As a general point about this thread I think it's important to use language carefully.
You can't talk about "Muslims" as a homogeneous block any more than you can for Christians, atheists or anybody else. My friend Derek (Christian) probably has more in common with moderate Muslims than he does with that lunatic pastor from the States who wanted an International Burn the Quran day or the loonies who picket soldiers funerals with signs saying it's God's verdict on America that they're dead.
Similarly, my Muslim friends have less in common with a violent mob in Libya than they do with moderate Jews in Leominster.
The truth is that these reactions are generally culturally generated, not soundly based in religion. Poor, badly educated people with little or no access to the outside world whose lives are hard and who are guided by religious zealots tend to do stuff the rest of us find horrific.
But if you live in the cultural equivalent of the Dark Ages then that's no surprise. Going back to my Christian example, the real surprise is that there are some living in a generally educated and informed country like the US who have such extreme views.
Even then, we must allow for the fact that they are the tiniest of minorities, and are held in check by a rule of law that simply does not apply in countries like Pakistan or Libya.
Mitch
The people are indeed to the problem. Problematic people are easier to tackle when disarmed of their excuses and motivations. And religion is a pretty powerful motivator. People get to kill and blame an all powerful man in the sky.
When we take away the God excuse, then people at least have to admit they're acting on their own impulses. I can't really prove it. But I believe the God excuse allows people who otherwise wouldn't act-out violently to do so. Because in their minds they have permission.
When we take away the God excuse, then people at least have to admit they're acting on their own impulses. I can't really prove it. But I believe the God excuse allows people who otherwise wouldn't act-out violently to do so. Because in their minds they have permission.
Jihad means struggle. There are two forms of Jihad, the greater and lesser Jihads. The greater Jihad is the struggle against one's self, against temptations and needless desires, and to surrender to God's infinite Will. The lesser Jihad is fighting for the defense of one's self, family, ideology, etc. Notice the keyword "defense" here. So that makes the last statement you quoted wrong. I have never heard of such a thing.
Man, you can nitpick all you want, it won't make your point valid. There's no compulsion in Islam. It's forbidden. You cannot force another human being to believe in something that he or she does not believe in. I am not too familiar about Saheeh Muslim as I am not Sunni, but in my faith I have never came across anything like that. Besides, my earlier point just proves religious dominance is nonexistence in Islam.
Now, there are people who believe in that. There are also people who think 9/11 was an inside job. Go figure.
Okay? That doesn't mean anything. Are you saying that the Muslims in Bradford, and Wolverhampton are all like that? You should try to talk to them, maybe head down to the local Mosque and ask questions instead of judging them based on the number of kids they have.
You just cited two extremist groups and you want me to choose who's the true Muslim? No, both of them aren't.
As for the Pakistan incident, the accusers are morons. Besides, the court were incredulous about it and ruled in her favor like any sane human being would.
Man, you can nitpick all you want, it won't make your point valid. There's no compulsion in Islam. It's forbidden. You cannot force another human being to believe in something that he or she does not believe in. I am not too familiar about Saheeh Muslim as I am not Sunni, but in my faith I have never came across anything like that. Besides, my earlier point just proves religious dominance is nonexistence in Islam.
Now, there are people who believe in that. There are also people who think 9/11 was an inside job. Go figure.
Okay? That doesn't mean anything. Are you saying that the Muslims in Bradford, and Wolverhampton are all like that? You should try to talk to them, maybe head down to the local Mosque and ask questions instead of judging them based on the number of kids they have.
You just cited two extremist groups and you want me to choose who's the true Muslim? No, both of them aren't.
As for the Pakistan incident, the accusers are morons. Besides, the court were incredulous about it and ruled in her favor like any sane human being would.
big_dog_8080
New member
My browser does not like the multi quote thing , so I have done it like this, sorries
KingLeonidas
Member
Also its not nitpicking, taking from Sam Harris's the moral landscape, he talks here about moderates etc
"Here is the section of The End of Faith that Maher was referring to, in which I provide five pages of quotations from the Qur’an. Please know that these are not the only passages of this kind in the text. I simply broke off the litany of sacred hatred once I felt I had proved my point. Even worse passages appear later in the book (in chapters 8 and 9, for instance).
(from The End of Faith, pp. 117-123)
Open the Koran, which is perfect in its every syllable, and simply read it with the eyes of faith. You will see how little compassion need be wasted on those whom God himself is in the process of “mocking,” “cursing,” “shaming,” “punishing,” “scourging,” “judging,” “burning,” “annihilating,” “not forgiving,” and “not reprieving.” God, who is infinitely wise, has cursed the infidels with their doubts. He prolongs their life and prosperity so that they may continue heaping sin upon sin and all the more richly deserve the torments that await them beyond the grave. In this light, the people who died on September 11 were nothing more than fuel for the eternal fires of God’s justice. To convey the relentlessness with which unbelievers are vilified in the text of the Koran, I provide a long compilation of quotations below, in order of their appearance in the text. This is what the Creator of the universe apparently has on his mind (when he is not fussing with gravitational constants and atomic weights):
“It is the same whether or not you forewarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith” (2:6). “God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along” (2:15). A fire “whose fuel is men and stones” awaits them (2:24). They will be “rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection” (2:85). “God’s curse be upon the infidels!” (2:89). “They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]” (2:90). “God is the enemy of the unbelievers” (2:98). “The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord” (2:105). “They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter” (2:114). “Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost” (2:122). “[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate” (2:126). “The East and the West are God’s. He guides whom He will to a straight path” (2:142). “Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them” (2:154). “But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved” (2:162). “They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire” (2:168). “The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing” (2:172). “Theirs shall be a woeful punishment” (2:175). “How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism” (2:176). “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93). “Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not” (2:216). “They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God’s mercy” (2:217–18). “God does not guide the evil-doers” (2:258). “God does not guide the unbelievers” (2:264). “The evil-doers shall have none to help them” (2:270). “God gives guidance to whom He will” (2:272).
Link provided- http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/honesty-the-muslim-worlds-scarcest-resource
Are you going to say ALL of these are taken out of context?
Just to bring it back in for a moment. I am not saying all Muslims are bad, or any other sort of generic statement of fact like this.
My main points are
1:We do not have an authoritative guidance on who are the "true Muslims" so it lacks merit to say ,"oh those guys who just blew up that school bus, those are not true Muslims", if you think this is un true please proceed.
2: Islam is not at its core a religion of peace. I do not think it claims to be, but people not to stop pretending this.
I think I have shown, and you even liked/thanks one of my comments about how the press did not show the letters issued condeming violence. I know the media does not like to show this. The media here anyway. So I am not a bigot, nor ignorant of world events. I have also clearly stated that my knowledge of Islam is limited, and have you asked to link me to material when I say something that is fundamentally false. Thanks so far for a polite and informative discussion.
I am keen to see your views on Islam, and its long term place in the world.
Raz
"Here is the section of The End of Faith that Maher was referring to, in which I provide five pages of quotations from the Qur’an. Please know that these are not the only passages of this kind in the text. I simply broke off the litany of sacred hatred once I felt I had proved my point. Even worse passages appear later in the book (in chapters 8 and 9, for instance).
(from The End of Faith, pp. 117-123)
Open the Koran, which is perfect in its every syllable, and simply read it with the eyes of faith. You will see how little compassion need be wasted on those whom God himself is in the process of “mocking,” “cursing,” “shaming,” “punishing,” “scourging,” “judging,” “burning,” “annihilating,” “not forgiving,” and “not reprieving.” God, who is infinitely wise, has cursed the infidels with their doubts. He prolongs their life and prosperity so that they may continue heaping sin upon sin and all the more richly deserve the torments that await them beyond the grave. In this light, the people who died on September 11 were nothing more than fuel for the eternal fires of God’s justice. To convey the relentlessness with which unbelievers are vilified in the text of the Koran, I provide a long compilation of quotations below, in order of their appearance in the text. This is what the Creator of the universe apparently has on his mind (when he is not fussing with gravitational constants and atomic weights):
“It is the same whether or not you forewarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith” (2:6). “God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along” (2:15). A fire “whose fuel is men and stones” awaits them (2:24). They will be “rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection” (2:85). “God’s curse be upon the infidels!” (2:89). “They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]” (2:90). “God is the enemy of the unbelievers” (2:98). “The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord” (2:105). “They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter” (2:114). “Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost” (2:122). “[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate” (2:126). “The East and the West are God’s. He guides whom He will to a straight path” (2:142). “Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them” (2:154). “But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved” (2:162). “They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire” (2:168). “The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing” (2:172). “Theirs shall be a woeful punishment” (2:175). “How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism” (2:176). “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93). “Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not” (2:216). “They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God’s mercy” (2:217–18). “God does not guide the evil-doers” (2:258). “God does not guide the unbelievers” (2:264). “The evil-doers shall have none to help them” (2:270). “God gives guidance to whom He will” (2:272).
Link provided- http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/honesty-the-muslim-worlds-scarcest-resource
Are you going to say ALL of these are taken out of context?
Just to bring it back in for a moment. I am not saying all Muslims are bad, or any other sort of generic statement of fact like this.
My main points are
1:We do not have an authoritative guidance on who are the "true Muslims" so it lacks merit to say ,"oh those guys who just blew up that school bus, those are not true Muslims", if you think this is un true please proceed.
2: Islam is not at its core a religion of peace. I do not think it claims to be, but people not to stop pretending this.
I think I have shown, and you even liked/thanks one of my comments about how the press did not show the letters issued condeming violence. I know the media does not like to show this. The media here anyway. So I am not a bigot, nor ignorant of world events. I have also clearly stated that my knowledge of Islam is limited, and have you asked to link me to material when I say something that is fundamentally false. Thanks so far for a polite and informative discussion.
I am keen to see your views on Islam, and its long term place in the world.
Raz
There are a LOT of situations like that. Were I to condemn Israeli policies I would not be called "anti-Israeli".... I'd be called an "anti-semite" There was a guy is a bar talking about how he didn't want to support lazy, free-loading so-and-so-s who didn't want to work. I started to bring up the Do-Nothing Congress but he didn't want to hear it.
We Humans have very short memories. We don't like to think about the Shah of Iran and how his people suffered under his rule. And SHELL Oil's money? Safely tucked in his pocket. Think about the next war we will have to fight..... the one in Kazahkstan or one of those other Central Asian places. Or how about the war thats coming in the South China Sea. We set this all up years ago and our kids will have to foot the bill. Thats why I think its hypocritical for people to talk about the debt our kids are getting. Look at the globe and get an idea of the REAL bill thats coming due.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
We Humans have very short memories. We don't like to think about the Shah of Iran and how his people suffered under his rule. And SHELL Oil's money? Safely tucked in his pocket. Think about the next war we will have to fight..... the one in Kazahkstan or one of those other Central Asian places. Or how about the war thats coming in the South China Sea. We set this all up years ago and our kids will have to foot the bill. Thats why I think its hypocritical for people to talk about the debt our kids are getting. Look at the globe and get an idea of the REAL bill thats coming due.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think that it is a mistake to focus on religion as the problem. Religion is simply the excuse, while ignorance is the real problem.
People in the middle east are just as ignorant concerning the United States as are people in the United States concerning the people in the middle east. Because of this ignorance, there is a tremendous amount of mistrust in both directions. I wish we could all do as Rodney King recommended and "all just get along". Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen anytime soon.
People in the middle east are just as ignorant concerning the United States as are people in the United States concerning the people in the middle east. Because of this ignorance, there is a tremendous amount of mistrust in both directions. I wish we could all do as Rodney King recommended and "all just get along". Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen anytime soon.
this x10000. the rationale for the attacks, transcending the specific facts involved, essentially boils down to ignorant people with a tribal mindset being of such soul-shriveling stupidity that they are unable to understand the concept of individual people, and attacking what they perceive to be the "tribe" of an individual who crossed them, killing innocent people in the process.
i am not amused by their continued existence, and let's leave it at that.
i am not amused by their continued existence, and let's leave it at that.
animalcracker
New member
otoh, i just found this: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-u-officials-believe-libya-attack-planned-171504894.html
TypicalMach1
New member
Both
I wouldn't have it any other way.
Not drunk, but thanks for the warning. (you too Mitch, loud and clear my friend)
Anyway, thank god for MA class. Took all the steam out of me, nothing better than a bunch of motivated students to brighten any day.
Ok well I agree with HH that it goes way beyond religion this is a war our (and I say "our" meaning any western society) security is at stake. The terrorists hide behind their religion to bring sympathy from their countrymen. America's job is to police the world that's our price for success, we didn't ask to be the worlds police, in fact we don't necessarily want to be. The hard fact is we are the only country in a position to do it.
So we are and have been in a war with terror and we will see it through if it takes 100 years we will eliminate the threat. There will be repercussions for this attack some of our enemy will fall no doubt. This attack could not have been unforeseen and the governments or lack there of that is responsible for protecting our diplomats will have to pay a price. We are sending money to those governments by the millions the way I see it that will not continue. As we speak our Navy is positioning near Libya, go get em boy's.
It's not about religion, or a video. This is about destruction of our way of life and how it is deemed threatening to the Islamic way of life. It's about Israel and hatred for their intrusion into the holy land.
The following may be offensive to some.
I have friends that are Muslim and what I see over seas is nothing like my friends here. However of the friends I have, the most moderate is the one's from Iran, go figure. I actually think we should liberate the Iranian people because they would probably be a good model for Muslims.
Ok go ahead and flame me.
Your ball Holy.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
Not drunk, but thanks for the warning. (you too Mitch, loud and clear my friend)
Anyway, thank god for MA class. Took all the steam out of me, nothing better than a bunch of motivated students to brighten any day.
Ok well I agree with HH that it goes way beyond religion this is a war our (and I say "our" meaning any western society) security is at stake. The terrorists hide behind their religion to bring sympathy from their countrymen. America's job is to police the world that's our price for success, we didn't ask to be the worlds police, in fact we don't necessarily want to be. The hard fact is we are the only country in a position to do it.
So we are and have been in a war with terror and we will see it through if it takes 100 years we will eliminate the threat. There will be repercussions for this attack some of our enemy will fall no doubt. This attack could not have been unforeseen and the governments or lack there of that is responsible for protecting our diplomats will have to pay a price. We are sending money to those governments by the millions the way I see it that will not continue. As we speak our Navy is positioning near Libya, go get em boy's.
It's not about religion, or a video. This is about destruction of our way of life and how it is deemed threatening to the Islamic way of life. It's about Israel and hatred for their intrusion into the holy land.
The following may be offensive to some.
So what if some idiot makes a video about Alibaba, I for one don't give a rat's arse about offending anyone let alone Muslims moderate or extremist. The fact that everyone has to be PC only toward Muslims is ridiculous, Christians, Jews, Atheists endure ridicule on all sides, and they aren't wholesale killing over it. So the rest of the world has to walk on pin's and needles for Muslims I call BS.
I have friends that are Muslim and what I see over seas is nothing like my friends here. However of the friends I have, the most moderate is the one's from Iran, go figure. I actually think we should liberate the Iranian people because they would probably be a good model for Muslims.
Ok go ahead and flame me.
Your ball Holy.
@Razgriz, what version of the Qur'an are you reading? Because your quotes are unbelievably wrong. There are plenty of online English Quran's, please make sure you double check any verses you post before posting nonsense.
Yes, after double checking an online Qur'an yes.
There is no such thing as a "true muslim". You are either a muslim or not, if you accept and attain to the five pillars of Islam, you are a mulsim.
Pillars,
1. The Shahada, accepting there is only one God and Muhaofftopicd is his messenger.
2. Salah, Praying.
3. Zakat, Charity.
4. Sawm, Fasting during Ramadan.
5. Hajj, a pilgrimage to Mecca if you are financially and medically able, once in your life.
That makes you a Muslim, blowing up buildings, or going to heaven for virgins and dying in martyrdom that's all politics.
I don't understand when the IRA do something all Catholics are not tarnished in the same light, (they shouldn't be). And neither should Muslims, please learn a little about Islam, and stop quoting from anti-Islamic sources.
Have you ever read the old testament in the Bible or the Torah? You will notice that they are exactly the same across the Abrahamic religions.
Islam, is one of the most tolerant out there, and accepts the Bible and the Torah as good guides.
Your comment on Apostates is not mentioned in the Qur'an. But it was quite clear from your posts you weren't very learned on the subject, if you wish I can get into it.
Why does it have to be labelled as a religion of anything? In its core it is a religion of peace. Same as the Old Testament and the Jewish Torah, look at Israel. The Qur'an explains that Jihad is an action of self defence, similar to the just war criteria. Jihad literally as warrior mentioned means "struggle". It can be used to mean anything you want my anti Islamic propaganda.
Yes, after double checking an online Qur'an yes.
There is no such thing as a "true muslim". You are either a muslim or not, if you accept and attain to the five pillars of Islam, you are a mulsim.
Pillars,
1. The Shahada, accepting there is only one God and Muhaofftopicd is his messenger.
2. Salah, Praying.
3. Zakat, Charity.
4. Sawm, Fasting during Ramadan.
5. Hajj, a pilgrimage to Mecca if you are financially and medically able, once in your life.
That makes you a Muslim, blowing up buildings, or going to heaven for virgins and dying in martyrdom that's all politics.
I don't understand when the IRA do something all Catholics are not tarnished in the same light, (they shouldn't be). And neither should Muslims, please learn a little about Islam, and stop quoting from anti-Islamic sources.
Have you ever read the old testament in the Bible or the Torah? You will notice that they are exactly the same across the Abrahamic religions.
Islam, is one of the most tolerant out there, and accepts the Bible and the Torah as good guides.
Your comment on Apostates is not mentioned in the Qur'an. But it was quite clear from your posts you weren't very learned on the subject, if you wish I can get into it.
Why does it have to be labelled as a religion of anything? In its core it is a religion of peace. Same as the Old Testament and the Jewish Torah, look at Israel. The Qur'an explains that Jihad is an action of self defence, similar to the just war criteria. Jihad literally as warrior mentioned means "struggle". It can be used to mean anything you want my anti Islamic propaganda.