US embassies attacked

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were- cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"

This is what government is starting to become.
 
The ideal government is completely ineffectual but with a military that has no equal. Ideally it should act in the best interest of the people but at the very least it should simply stay out of the way.
 
No, the ideal government is one that only exists when it is required and disappears when not. The idea of a permanent form of government is what turns it into the monster it becomes.
The same goes for military. A state should have military capacity without having a large standing army. If you create a large military sooner or later someone wants to put it to use. Defence of the community should be a responsibility shared by all and nobody should only be a soldier by profession. Just as everyone should be able to assume the role of a soldier.

The Bear.
 
Exactly. But how does one successfully establish such a righteous law system and sense of community involvement? This is where the fallacies of Man come into play and bring us back to our original animal-like behavior. Religion is the belief of the "believers" that God bestowed laws and rules upon Man to better himself and learn to control the animal-like nature we are all born with.
 
Adding to what Polar Bear said, our governments sit at the top table of practically every major international body and they do everything in their power to stay there. And if they're not a member, they have a puppet on a string looking after their interests.

That gives countries like the USA and UK a huge amount of power in the world. With that power comes responsibility. So when things aren't going so well in places like Sierra Leone. Our governments actually do have a very real responsibility to step in and sort it out. Unfortunately normal practice dictates that only happens in a serious way when something of value is at risk or up for grabs.
 
Afghanistan was started purely as an American war, supposedly in the hunt for Bin Laden supported by the UK. At the beginning we completely ignored the fact the Taliban believe they'll go to heaven if they die fighting for Islam and used very one dimensional terror tactics to try and scare the Taliban into giving up Bin Laden.

Remember the buzz words that were repeated on the news at every turn? "Shock and awe"!

When the Taliban started counting the number of virgins they'd get in heaven if they died while being carpet bombed we had no back up plan. No way out that would allow us to save face or justify carpet bombing a country already practically living in the stone age. So we had to invade, remove the Taliban and make up the excuse we were liberating the people.

Afghanistan had nothing to do with the rest of NATO. We should count ourselves lucky any of them got involved at all.
 
Perhaps we should get past the concept that we are something other than animals? When we can face our true nature then we'll be able to start resolving some of our more destructive issues.
 
Also keeping in mind that the tribe of Taliban (there are multiple tribes of Taliban but westernized media will only group them all together as one evil entity) that NATO waged war on was trained by the American CIA during Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.

Afghanistan has been known for thousands of years as the "graveyard of empires" because no occupying power has ever been able to win it over unlike its neighbors (Iraq, Pakistan, India). Its harsh terrain and hardened inhabitants, the Pashtuns, are well known in that region of the world. I don't agree with a lot of what happens in that country, but I can't turn a blind eye toward them single-handedly pushing back the forces of Alexander the Great, the British Empire, the Russians (although with indirect help from the CIA's training) and attempted influences of Greek, Arab, Iranian and Buddhist which failed. It has been 11-12 years now that NATO has been involved in Afghanistan and have still not won it over. Contrary to what western media may portray to gain the support of Americans and Brits, nearly every major media outlet in Asia have been reporting Afghan victories.

The only way to really "win" would be to drop a nuclear bomb on the country... which obviously would only make things worse, but it's not a war we should be fighting and it's sad that even every penny I make is in indirect support of waging war against many innocent people (and some occasional culprits).
 
Actually they didn't. They lost against Alexander, all they did was slow him down.
It's one of those popular myths that Afghanistan has never been conquered. It's been done many times in history.

The Bear.
 
I don't want to turn this into a battle of sources but I don't believe that one single bit, bro. We can just agree to disagree for the sake of a lengthier discussion
 
So whats our true nature then? We are evolved primates, with a frontal lobe that's to small and adrenaline glands that are to big. We bare many marks of our lowly origin, but we have also shown with our intelligence, creativity and a lot of other things that we rise above. But at the end of the day we are maofftopicls.

Raz

Raz
 
We are not occupying Afghanistan, we are there as guests of a government, at their request.


"The anti war mantra was: "Afghanistan, where the world's richest country rains bombs on the world's poorest country." Poor fools. They should never have tried to beat me at this game. What about, "Afghanistan, where the world's most open society confronts the world's most closed one"? "Where American women pilots kill the men who enslave women." "Where the world's most indiscriminate bombers are bombed by the world's most accurate ones." "Where the largest number of poor people applaud the bombing of their own regime." I could go on. (I think No. 4 may need a little work.) But there are some suggested contrasts for the "doves" to paste into their scrapbook. Incidentally, when they look at their scrapbooks they will be able to reread themselves saying things like, "The bombing of Kosovo is driving the Serbs into the arms of Milosevic."

Christopher Hitchens

Raz
 
The singular truth is that we ARE animals....but most probably the only animals that can aspire to something greater than ourselves. That we have that opportunity available to us indicates that we are something more than animals. That we routinely choose not to avail ourselves of that opportunity indicates we are nothing more than animals. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
 
Fair enough, however historically it is not relevant anyway. If the US wanted to completely subdue Afghanistan it could. In fact, if it desired it, it could eradicate every person in the country. I think it does the US great credit that it doesn't do that and will it accept defeat before becoming a monster just like it did in Vietnam.

The Bear.
 
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