itsnotme4321
New member
Can somebody show me where somebody uses freewill to "accept Christ" or be saved?
I wonder where Christians get this from. If you consider that Romans 9 says -
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Can we come to God on our own. This says no -
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
When it comes to faith, people always seem to make the claim that they have faith which saves them and then they attribute it to themselves. But doesn't God give the hearing ear? (Proverbs 20:12)
Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Ephesians 2:8-10 -
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
If we can come to understand the gospel and love God all on our own, then is it still grace that saves us or is it our own spirituality? Ephesians 2:8-10 plainly says that we are saved by grace through faith, NOT OF OURSELVES lest anyone should boast.
How does free will fit into all this?
I wonder where Christians get this from. If you consider that Romans 9 says -
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Can we come to God on our own. This says no -
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
When it comes to faith, people always seem to make the claim that they have faith which saves them and then they attribute it to themselves. But doesn't God give the hearing ear? (Proverbs 20:12)
Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Ephesians 2:8-10 -
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
If we can come to understand the gospel and love God all on our own, then is it still grace that saves us or is it our own spirituality? Ephesians 2:8-10 plainly says that we are saved by grace through faith, NOT OF OURSELVES lest anyone should boast.
How does free will fit into all this?