Margaret Thatcher has died

[Maite]

It used to be simpler when we had higher interest rates. I can understand the frustration here - my mum lost a fair amount from her life savings in an investment that was supposed to track the performance of equities. At the time I was telling her to put it in property. These things are hugely reliant on timing, if you get that wrong, it can be a real pain.

Some banks offer bonds which tie your money down longer but offer a better rate of interest than regular saving accounts on offer. In terms of interest, that's about the best you do.

This is another factor that's driven property markets over here. You get a better return from rental yields than from interest, so many people invest their savings in bricks and mortar. Which is hard to blame them for really.

 

[Infantryh8]

I think that this is the same answer a pensioner would have given who now is choosing between food and heat.

Or the student that cannot afford university.

Or the miner that has no savings.

You are writing it off as distasteful and taking odd snipes about this guy Jimmy Carr (no idea who this is BTW).

What I am saying is that this knowledge is the key to avoiding the situations that people here are blaming Maggie for.

When they say ' I paid my taxes, now I cannot afford heat!' its because they thought like you.

The game is not fair, you only have two solutions, learn the rules so you can still win, or give up and blame the game.

 

[DavidArchuletaLuver4Ever]

Why? I admit that on this forum (where I am getting a lot of pot shots for having a different opinion) I might not be explaining myself as well as I could, but that doesn't mean I am not trying to help and willing to explain and answer questions.

What is the problem with my 'moral responsibility'?

 

[Rachel:I]

Or you can opt to play a fairer game.

 

[jaydeelet]

But its not is it. That is the point. They aren't simple.

So, are you going to blame people for that, or are you going to try to learn how to play the game?

PS My major is relational database design and I remember normalizing to the 6NF - I never studied finance.

 

[pupcake]

How?

 

[4l20Blackbird]

or we could set fire to the game, arrest those who convinced us it was the only game that could be played and bent the rules to take all our wealth, then we could grow up and stop playing games

 

[pinkbeach1034]

Certainly an option. And better than living in the game and hiding from the reality of it.

 

[Dyl]

This bloke.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-jimmy-carr-hmrc

This sort of stuff is distasteful.

"The scheme is understood to work by UK earners "quitting" their job and signing new employment contracts with offshore shell companies. Those companies then "rehire" their new employee back out to the UK but take their earnings. The offshore company then pays their employee a much lower salary but also "loans" them thousands a month. However these loans can be written down as tax liabilities, and so reducing the overall bill to the government.

 

[onenine90]

Your grasp of moral responsibility is skewed to blame the victim*. If I break into your house at night and shove a pneumatic drill where the sun doesn't shine then you blame me not "you and me".

You don't go:

"Well obviously Fin is not a very nice character but this pain is also partly my fault for not employing 24/7 security and wearing titanium underpants to prevent drill induced rectal damage. I really should of taken better precautions"

Blaming the miners for not having a side-career in property development lined up is like blaming a rape victim for going on a blind date or pointing the finger someone who was defrauded by a credit card scan because he didn't know how to check his computer for malware.

At the end of the day it's nothing more than a smoke-screen to distract and absolve the actual "villains" of their part.

*Obviously when you can re-orientate yourself to bad situations and make the best of it, then one should do so. But the criticism that people who bemoan the unfairness of our, entirely man-made, economic and social systems are hindering progress in itself, hinders progress. It's impossible to talk about justice if every time someone raises the subject they are told that they are just shirking responsibility and that they should "empower themselves" by pretending that nothing wrong was done.

 

[saraemiska]

Actually, I'm not in bad shape. I plan on retiring in the next 3 to 5 years. I have a pension from back in the old days and I'm already pulling from it. I owned my home and sold it to my daughter and her family. I get a nice monthly payment and they get a good deal on the house. I have some money in 401k's and ira's and will get social security. Also, I have no debt as I hate borrowing money.

So even with the upcoming divorce I will be able to get myself a nice little place near a beach somewhere in the south and start really prepping for Z-day.

 

[wariya]

Ok, nice analogy, and I agree you are right.

Thing is, I could blame the chap who was pumping me full of lead, but where would that get me?

Or I could take reasonable measures to protect against it.

It is no surprise that at some point, should you wish to retire you will need a certain amount of money to support your lifestyle. In america there is the Social Security payment for this, pays you a 'pension' you put in over the years and get back when you retire, but there is a fair chance that the system will be bankrupt by the time I retire. I have to pay in now still, because if I don't I go to prison.

But, should I 'hope' that it isn't bankrupt, or should I accept the fact that it might be and take precautionary measures?

 

[virginia]

Some would disagree with me, but voting is a start.

 

[Wandering]

That's another reason people aren't in charge of their own tax arrangements.
I'm sure if I started to try and move my money around (can I even do that instead of my company doing my tax for me?) I'd be in the brown stuff within 2 years.
I'd owe something somewhere or transfer it where I shouldn't, or not pay enough somewhere else.

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

Sure, I get it as a concept. But I still think that until change happens you have to educate yourself to play by the rules, in case it doesn't.

When they voted out Major this was supposed to happen, it didn't. It probably won't, but if it does it will take time. Even if it is only 10 years in the making the difference that will make to your retirement and children is massive.

I'm not a fan of Maggie, I am also not a fan of blaming Maggie or anyone else when things don't go the way I hoped.

 

[weburnitup24]

Probably an inevitable by-product of being in the Bujinkan. Ahahahahahah.

 

[zzvegasbaby]

But the example I gave you is just funding a retirement account.

I added the twist of Capital Losses, that's not that complicated (when explained properly of course..)

That's not illegal. It should be criminal not to know about this stuff.

If you go for a mortgage you should have to fill in a quiz (calculator provided) with questions like:

If I lose my job how long before I am in arrears so far that they repossess?
If the interest rate goes up by X what will my monthly payment be?
If the housing market crashes by Y at what point would I be in negative equity?

They let people get mortgages without understanding things like this, its like allowing drunk, blindfolded spider monkeys to drive bulldozers through china shops.

 

[writtenxx]

Actually it explains why I can stick with the training, because its up to me to get good, not blame someone else for not getting me good.

 

[xoJuicyCouturexo]

And those are personal measures that you take in order to help ensure your personal safety and, within reason, they are expected of you.

However not all measures which are wise are necessarily morally obligatory. For instance I don't often check whether someone has drugged my drink, this is not because I want to be the victim of a sexual assault but because I, fairly, assume the civil right of having a drink in a bar without second guessing what the bar-man put in my glass.


Similarly, if you put money into a pension scheme and are swindled by a complex financial scam using ambiguous small print designed to confuse and mis-lead you then the appropriate response is not to criticise you for being duped but to turn to the people who duped you and say "HEY, STOP RIPPING OFF OUR FRIENDS!"

Everyone is free and encouraged to take whatever measures they want, but in order to help keep society safe, predictable and flourishing we need to be able to do some "house-cleaning" from time to time. Which includes the ability to denounce injustice without being branded as dour nay-sayers.

 

[sek]

I'm fine with this. Denounce away.

But along with it take reasonable measures to protect yourself from being a victim.

When it comes to many matters, financial intelligence is going to be the key to this, and being ready to learn and take responsibility for your future.