Palestenian-Israeli Conflict

Yes Britain never took part in imperialism or the slave trade.

Your forgetting the US also supported Al Qeida and the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and the same Iranian gov't that took US hostages from our embassy.
 
What do the Palestinains have to do with Iraq? Nothing.

Israel is responding to Palestinian attacks. Are you saying suicide bombings should not evoke a response from Israel?

Iraq was not picked out of thin air. Britain and the US were maintaining no fly zones over Iraq to protect Shiites and Kurds from Saddam Hussein. The US and Britain bombed Iraq in 1998 for the same reason they invaded in 2004. Iraq agreed to proving no WMD's to end the last war in 1991.
 
That is exactly what he is saying. The Americans invaded 2 countries after 3,000 people died in a terrorist attack, out of a population of over 300,000,000. Prorate the Israeli victimes of terrorist attacks and what do you think the US response would be?

It is squarely in the hands of the Palestinians. But I won't hold my breath. Golda Meir said it best when she said "We will not have peace until they (Palestinians) start loving their children more than they hate ours"
 
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/net-report.html
To firecoins, this shows the reporting of Israeli deaths vs the reporting of Palestinian deaths. If you say it is an unreliable source, find an alternate.

Time to post some links to tables of deaths, both Israeli side and Palestinian side.

Israeli side from official Israel website:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Palestinian%20terror%20since%202000/Victims%20of%20Palestinian%20Violence%20and%20Terrorism%20sinc

Palestinian side from independent British organization:
http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/CountryBackgrounds/Palestine/PalestineBodyCount/tabid/57/Default.aspx
http://www.palestinercs.org/crisistables/table_of_figures.htm

I'll sum up what is said in the above websites.
Total Israeli deaths since Sept 30, 2000: 999.
Total Israeli injuries (severely, moderately, and lightly injured) : 642 severely injured, 940 moderately, and 5,263 lightly injured

Total Palestinian deaths since Sept 30, 2000: 3,920.
Total Palestinian injuries: 29,985.
(Live Ammunition - 7,961
Rubber/Plastic bullets - 6,756
Tear gas - 6,575
Miscellaneous - 8,689)

Deaths of Children in Israel and Palestine since Sept 30, 2000:
Israel:
Children killed - 121
Palestine:
Children under 18 killed - 706 (or 724 according to other sources; I'll use the smaller figure just in case)
Children under 12 killed - 164

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html
Website with source. It has a complete list of the children killed if you don't trust the website.
Comlete list of children killed on both sides at this website:
http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2005.html

I don't know what Golda Meir was talking about.
 
Here it is again, clearly your attention span is limited, so I've highlighted the relevant bit
 
Shows how much you know... the Swedes rather famously handed over a number of Norwegian Resistance Fighters to the SS.
 
I said perhaps, so now I guess everyone is equally to blame. It still doesn't alter the damming figures of Palestinian casualties and fatalaties though.
 
This post misses the point.

1. Yes the American media is biased. It has nothing to do with anything I said.

2. If your looking to say Jews run the media. I can get a list of the people who run the media and they aren't Jews.

3. The Israeli response is a response to the PALESTINIAN Intifada. Israel has a right to defend itself.

4. No not all Palestinans are bad. Palestinians are not bad people.

5. Golda Meir is talking about hatred for Israel is great enough that various Muslims (not all) would rather send their children to die in a war to remove Israel than live in peace with Israel.
 
You have just trotted out the CNN line completely, admitted that the media is biased, but said that it's not got anything to do with what you've said, puleeeesse


Who the hell has said that?


By butchering children. Have you read any of the reports that have been posted about entire units in the Israeli army refusing to follow orders because they find them unacceptable. If it's all as fair as you are trying to make out, why is that happening? Are you even aware of the large numbers of Israeli's who are refusing national service because they want no part in the atrocities commited against the Palestinians?


Who was arguing otherwise?


Or maybe it's just a natural reaction to having their children killed by Isreal. Have you even bothered to look at the stats that have been posted? Israel is ahead of everyone when it comes to murdering children.
 
ISrael released that they are doing an ivestigation. CNN just reported it.





which report is that? Since you an I both agree the media is biased is it worth believing? And if true, find the terrorists who have done the equivalent.





Israel is acting in response to the Intifada. Since you haven't even argued against this point could it be the Israeli natural reaction to their children being killed. Of course. Since they have better weapons it only makes sense that there would be more casualties which makes me wonder why the intifada was started to begin with. Oh yeah, because Ariel Sharon visited the Wailing Wall. So we lots of dead children because Ariel Sharon visited the Wailing Wall. Very smart.
 
Funny thing I notice about those numbers is the type of injuries. Has anyone else noticed that the majority of "injuries" are tear gas and rubber bullets? Aren't those designed to minimize harm? Versus shrapnel which is intended to maximize harm?

Those numbers are not telling the whole story and we all know it. The listing of light injuries for Israelis and no such designation for Palestinians. The listing of children and yet how many of the palestinian "children" that are injured are also actual combatants? If a 12 year old has a gun and is firing at you, are you not supposed to fire back? If a person is firing at you and is standing in the middle of children, do you not fire back? Both of those have occured regularly.
 
Wow the amount of ignorance of the history behind the security situation in Israel is unbelievable.


The fact is, if Hamas terrorists were to completely renounce their campaign tomorrow Israeli attacks would stop. If Israel stopped their attacks tomorrow, Hamas's violence would continue.


You tell me who's destroying the peace process.
 
This about sums it up, and could have saved us 24 pages of debate.

Good post, medi.
 
Wrong. Saddam Hussein and Iraq tried to assassinate a sitting President of the United States. http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/fbilab1/05bush2.htm

That's an act of war in my book. I realize the current situation has little to do with the attempt, but it's a fallacy to say Iraq never attacked the US. Further, Iraq repeatedly fired on Coalition aircraft enforcing the No Fly Zones agreed to by Iraq at the end of the 1991 Gulf War. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2000/00apr11.htm

So really, you can't say Iraq never attacked the US becaue that statement just isn't true. Whether or not Iraq's actions warrant an invasion of their country can debated, but it still cannot be said Iraq never attacked the US.

I'm guessing your immediate response is to point out Iraq did all those things in response to the '91 war. Need I remind you what the Iraqis did in Kuwait?
 
Clutching desperately at straws there Captain America.


The no-fly zone was their air space, why exactly should Iraqis respect an order from America, or miss the opportunity to shoot down enemy aircraft?



Sorry not even remotely convincing.


What the hell did that have to do with the US?
 
Great, but wrong. There are just as many Isreali nutters hell bent on genocide of the Palestinians as Palestinians who will never stop fighting against Israelis.
 
No, I'm not wrong.


You need to stop forming your opinions then looking for facts to back them up.

Israel has NO reason to think that regardless of whether they cease their attacks or withdraw from the occupied territories, they will no longer be attacked. The behaviour of their neighbours throughout the last 60 years, along with Hamas's continued pledge for their destruction, in fact gives them good reason to believe that anti Israeli violence will never end.
 
When was the last Hamas ordered attack? When was the last Israeli attack.
 
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