parents and non parents.

I just wrote a reeeeaaally long reply, but my computer signed me out of MAP in the meantime, so it's gone (facepalm). That's probably good news for all of you, though.

A quick suofftopicry:

Objectively speaking, babies are pretty unpleasant. They are made significantly less so by a hormonal blindfold most people wear.

Since issuing fertile progeny is imperative for all life forms, the bond between a human parent and it's virtually helpless child is the most important that any individual human can have. Comparing it to a bond with a (say) cat is probably not accurate.

In my opinion, subconscious knowledge = understanding; conscious knowledge = knowing.

I think it's fair to say that I don't understand being punched in the face until I've been punched in the face, even if I know a lot about being punched in the face.

Having kids is like being punched in the face (metaphorically speaking, of course).

END SUofftopicRY
 
So here's something else that struck me last night on this issue. Lineage. That's something many people in martial arts seem to value. Many people also value it in their broader lives. Now, I'm not suggesting you DON'T if you don't want children. What I am saying is that it's one of the ideas that makes me glad I have children, despite not wanting them in the first place.

Three years ago, my only sibling (my younger sister) died unexpectedly. I already had two children at that point, so it's not as though this is what prompted me to have kids. But the idea that, had I not done that, my family would essentially have died out with me, does make me glad to have had three children (now).

I think, with a transitory society, it's easy to lose a sense of where you come from and how you're connected to those who came before you. Particularly for me, having immigrated from England 3,000 miles away and lived the vast majority of my life in the States now (30+ years). But somehow, adding on to that continuum makes me feel connected to my existing family.

Again, hard for me to explain. And I'm not arguing for one position or another anymore. Just speaking about my own personal experience. I hope I've made it clear that I don't have issue one with other people not wanting kids. That's never been my issue here.
 
I was thinking of how to put what I thought into words, but you did a better job than I would have. I don't know (understand ) jack about being a parent, but I can relate to the being punched in the face. Most people here probably will too. Anyway, I like the analogy and I agree. Knowing and understanding is different.
 
Pretty much sums it up. It is one thing to dislike kids, but if you do, just let it go. Don't start threads about it or bring it up every single time kids are mentioned.

And the level of the dislike is off the charts. I have the impression that this thread is somehow meant to convince that this is not out of the ordinary, but it is.
 
Not really. Or at least not only.

When her brother got a kid, according to what she posted at the time, her reaction to the baby was 'Eeeehwww, get that horrible thing away from me. I don't mind you, I just detest your child'. And from what I remember, this was not a scenario like yours (I can understand not wanting to be involved) but something like presenting your baby at a family gettogether.

If you express yourself like that, verbally or in body language, it is not surprising that the sibling relationship cools down to well below freezing temperatures. At that point the dislike is so strong it is tearing other things apart and becoming a problem.
 
This is what I'm talking about. There is nothing wrong with me. I didnt do anything to my brother or his kid. I just moved away from the kid. and really, Im akin to a racist or homphobic? :/



or how about they just dont want them?



actually I have a big family (lots of aunts uncles cousins etc, None of them disowned me cause I dont want to be close to babies or small kids. Only brother and his gf. But - Im a problem? Even though I would never hurt a kid and they (bro and his gf) know that or should because they've known me all their lives?



Actually, I was threatened with violence. When i went to see my niece when she was just born, I said "she's not weird" cause most babies I find are pretty weird looking. Lol. My brother said to my face months and months later, that if I wasnt who I am (meaning that he knew my parents would get after him for doing it) he would take me, punch me right in the face, beat me up pick me up, and throw me out of the hospital. and the onlyt reason he didnt do it is because of who I am, meaning that my parents would have defended me and likely have him charged for it.






Thanks. I appreciate it.



like I said, I dont know why some people dont like kids. They just dont.

I have seen it in other species too, One fb friend of mine has tocare for newborn kittens cause the mother has no interest in babies. Its not uncommon. It happens in humans, it happens in other species. Im glad im human and I dont have to have babies. not like other species. They dont have BC.



Thanks . I really enjoy the mappers here too. I wouldnt be here since sept 2009 if I didnt really love it.



I can tell you what to do when that happens, because it happens to me. When you go to post, you will be put to another log in page because it signed you out. Stay on that page and just enter your name and password again and click. It'll take you right to your post. It'll be posted. Or alternatively, you can highlight and copy what you have written, then login and go to the thread, make a new post space, then paste in what you copied.



I disagree with that. Many bonds between different humans are just as important. And I have read about parents who value their kids above their spouses and say they love kids more than the spouse and would save the kids first. I then think, Those poor spouses. Then I think, Maybe that could be why many spouses might secretly feel like cheating.

Also, another beef I have with parents is that too many of them have the belief that babies just happen, and so they'll just deal if the BC failed. And so they then say You can never really be ready for parenthood. Well duhh! They didnt really plan. The bc just failed. I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that there are some mappers here for whom that happened to. No. Babies dont "just happen" Unless you woke up in Ireland or Chile this morning, you have a choice and you or your wife could get an abortion if you REALLY WANTED to not have children. Some in this thread have said Or I was sure i didnt want kids ' and I bet the BC failed for them. Or, if you dont want an abortion, you could have had a vasectomy or, for females they could get Essure or something (but I know all about the difficulty of women without children to get sterelized) The fact is, Parenthood dont just happen. Not in this day and age.
 
I had a long reply all typed out and then lost it.
And then I thought...no point typing it out again...this is pointless.
Blade...you understand exactly what it's like to be a parent as well as anyone that's brought up multiple kids from birth to adulthood and the next time I need some advice on how best to bring up my children to be like the well adjusted set of people you and your family appear to be I'll drop you a PM.
In fact I'll probably also go on a child free site on the internet and ask them. They obviously know what's what in regards to kids too. Might meet you there.

Feel free to crap all over the thread I make in November when I tell people on here about the tawdry birth of my son.
 
Yes, I understood exactly what was being said in the Holocaust thing. It was an analogy about understanding something without experienceing it. But it is an extreme comparison to be making for the topic at hand. Millions of people executed.......people should be really careful about evoking those sorts of images for their cause.

I think it shows a lack of balance and perspective. Again, no disrespect intended.
 
I did NOT crap all over the thread. all I said was lots of people have sons. Its harmless really. Its true and harmless.

and - forget it. I'll ignore all threads like that. I have before, and then for once I decided to make a little comment on just one one such thread that wasnt really hurting anyone, and I get this.

actually I do think people should read childfree sites. They do understand a lot.

after all, I have picked up a parenting magazine and read stuff in them, because they did have articles in them that were interesting.

and I just wrote how to avoid losing stuff when you press post and it goes to a log in page cause it logged you out. Its in my post right before this 1.
 
No I can agree with that. Its probably the easiest one to come to mind but I would've preferred a different example too.
 
I was typing in the quick reply box and went back by mistake.
 
Let me start off by saying I have to agree with one thing. I am not one of those people who think all babies are cute. Some are pretty strange looking.
But I would NEVER tell a parent that.

He didn't threaten you. He said he felt like being violent but didn't do it months later. I am sorry that happened. It isn't appropriate.

But itis NOT akin to being beaten up, sometimes to death, for being gay. You don't walk down the street having to be cautious about not liking children. more obviously GLBT people do. We also have to be very careful when we do something as simple as holding hands with our partner, because it puts us at risk.

One threat. I ask again, how many people do you know actually having had physical violence perpetrated on them?

It is not aking to having electro shock therapy put on you to change your thinking, like what happened to GLBT people in the past.

Being GLBT is one of the, if not still THE. leading cause of teen suicide. Where does that rate fall for teens who won't have kids?

I could go on and on like this.

I used to do volunteer work for the local Lesbian Gay Historical Society. I don't want to turn this into a gay lesbian issues thread. But you really don't understand the history of what GLBT people have been through and still go through to make this comparison.

You are not discriminated against nearly on the level of what we have been through. To even suggest so shows a lack of perspective. Sorry, but it does.
 
And when you've posted about anything you've achieved or were proud of all you've ever got here is congratulations and support.
Just because something is true doesn't mean you are duty bound to say it.
We can all post the truth but for the sake of getting along nicely we don't.



You didn't get "this" for the comment. You got it for continually maintaining you knows as much about parenting and being a parent as people that actually are parents.
Despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
 
Damn...I did go and do some "Childfree" reading and what they understand most of all is how to be a bunch of humourless, joyless, sanctimonious arseholes.
Substitute the world "child" or "baby" for the word "woman" or "black" and it's pretty clear what sort of intolerant people they are.
You cannot have a world without children. That irony seems utterly lost on them.
They seem to want to make children neither seen or heard. They aren't even Victorian in their attitudes. More like fascists.
And the further irony is that a few idiots aside no one gives a toss that they don't have children. And yet they seem to be doing quite a lot of work patting themselves on the back and justifying it to themselves.
 
Course, I dont post "truth" either. Mostly. All I have said really is that I dont like small kids and babies. Thats "the truth" but it doesnt really hurt anyone. I dont think anyone here believes I'm any "threat" to anyone.

I dont wanna hide who I am and what I dislike. So I didnt.

Besides, people can post how much they love kids all day long til the cows come home. But somehow my opinion isnt allowed. That isnt right.



I never said I did. I said people without kids can understand about it. They are not incapable of it. I was disputing martialman's quote.
 
A lot of this just comes across as an attempt at almost demonising a section of society so that you can stand out. Not having kids or not liking kids is not a big deal, unless you try and make it so.

Most people don't give two hoots that you don't like little ones.

As has been said it's not so much your attitudes but how you put them across and how you seem to have the need to do so at every opportunity, even so far as to try and trash a thread which was a celebration of a rather significant event in someone's life.
 
Your opinion is absolutely allowed. As I've said, you have a right to say what you want. But not consequence free. I thought it was inappropriate in a thread that united most of MAP in congratulating someone on something important. And my personal feeling was that it was in poor taste to take that opportunity to reestablish your feelings on children.

And let's be clear on something. You've posted threads here on passing your latest belt test. And MAP has been similarly united in congratulating you on that achievement. Dozens of us responded positively to that news. And if someone had come along and said "millions of people have earned that belt," I'd have told them to take it somewhere else too.

And you'd have thanked me for it.
 
Actually you come off as much more than not liking. Your comments on kids come off as haterd of kids.

And as others have said, it wasn't so much what you said, but the thread you said it in. You are known for your hatred of kids, and you just come in a thread for a member celebrating what is an incredible moment in his life, and crapp over it. I've had spririted discussions with SiB, we don't get along on most things. I still think he deserved congratulations on the birth of his son.
 
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