puppielover407
Member
because when parents say that, it's a dumb thing. of course people without can understand. saying this, i'm a parent of 2. i agree, a ridiculous thing to say to non-parents.
parents and non parents.
- Thread starter AlexisInfectious®
- Start date
With regards to the emotional side of parenting being something you can't understand without being one, what do people think it is that causes it? Is it a case of having someone you created and who shares your genes to look after and protect? In which case is it possible for step parents or same sex couples who adopt to have the same level of care or understanding as biological parents?
If yes, then I assume its not a dna thing but something more to do with having someone you have a certain level of care for, in which case I'd be interested to hear reasons why that can't be replicated by anything other than a child.
If yes, then I assume its not a dna thing but something more to do with having someone you have a certain level of care for, in which case I'd be interested to hear reasons why that can't be replicated by anything other than a child.
I have no problem accepting that adoptive parents, same sex couples, etc. feel the same level of connection. I know plenty of both. I don't think DNA has much to do with it.
I think it's probably more to do with the level of commitment. And I don't think that there are NO equivalent levels of commitment. But the concerns are different. Not better or worse. Different. So while the strength of feeling and commitment might be equal with, say, caring for an older relative, the specific concerns, interventions, and milestones are different. That's all. I don't understand what it must be like to care for an older loved one whose health is failing either. I just don't. Doesn't mean it's not worthy or difficult.
I think it's probably more to do with the level of commitment. And I don't think that there are NO equivalent levels of commitment. But the concerns are different. Not better or worse. Different. So while the strength of feeling and commitment might be equal with, say, caring for an older relative, the specific concerns, interventions, and milestones are different. That's all. I don't understand what it must be like to care for an older loved one whose health is failing either. I just don't. Doesn't mean it's not worthy or difficult.
well sure.
LOL, possibly.
The statement was that we can never EVER understand it. At all. Like it seems like ANY of it. NEVER and EVER, amen. I disagree with it, obviously.
Who knows. Might be. I have read about "parent martyrs" who like to make themselves martyrs. Oh and by the way, they are the only ones who know what sleep and worry is. Yep, pretty smug.
Yups.
I UNDERSTAND, that yes it will feel different. I even understand why. But to say that we can absolutely not ever never and ever amen understand, at all, is quite ludicrus.
Actually, I also care how many child sex offenders are around too. I dont want kids hurt anymore than you do.
I get that too. But I think of it in terms of my cat. A purr and a rub makes me smile too.
No one who lost a loved one would find it possible to go on in the exact same way as they did before. So I hear ya.
On a brighter note, I look at my kids and I'm filled with pride, hope, and love. And that's where it gets really difficult to explain it without sounding like a soppy idiot.[/QUOTE]
Hehehe.
Maybe.
LOL, i have never compared babies to insects, vermin and viruses! Made me laugh out loud when I read that. LOL. Thanks for the laugh, though.
LOL, possibly.
The statement was that we can never EVER understand it. At all. Like it seems like ANY of it. NEVER and EVER, amen. I disagree with it, obviously.
Who knows. Might be. I have read about "parent martyrs" who like to make themselves martyrs. Oh and by the way, they are the only ones who know what sleep and worry is. Yep, pretty smug.
Yups.
I UNDERSTAND, that yes it will feel different. I even understand why. But to say that we can absolutely not ever never and ever amen understand, at all, is quite ludicrus.
Actually, I also care how many child sex offenders are around too. I dont want kids hurt anymore than you do.
I get that too. But I think of it in terms of my cat. A purr and a rub makes me smile too.
No one who lost a loved one would find it possible to go on in the exact same way as they did before. So I hear ya.
On a brighter note, I look at my kids and I'm filled with pride, hope, and love. And that's where it gets really difficult to explain it without sounding like a soppy idiot.[/QUOTE]
Hehehe.
Maybe.
LOL, i have never compared babies to insects, vermin and viruses! Made me laugh out loud when I read that. LOL. Thanks for the laugh, though.
So now I'm going to throw out my own take on this whole debate, and probably make both sides angry with me.
I seriously dislike cliques. They are inevitable, since man's closest relatives, the apes, are troop animals. This means that they live within and identify with a troop of individuals. Any that aren't in their particular troop are outsiders and suspect, or are outright enemies.
Because of this evolutionary background people gravitate toward, and feel most comfortable within, a certain group. In Blade's case, that is the group of non-parents. It is natural to attempt to elevate your own group at the expense of other groups. This is why some individuals always get excessive in their denigration of other groups. You can pick any particular group you like, look it up on the web, and you'll find someone within the group being rude and nasty putting down some other group.
For me, I much prefer being inclusive. My wife never wanted, and so never had any kids. She helped me raise my kids from a previous marriage though. I've got a number of friends within my circle that never had kids. They get along just fine with all of our other friends that do have kids. Of course, none of them are militant child-free types either, as kids are almost always involved in group activities among our friends.
Unfortunately, many of today's "leaders" have discovered what every petty dictator throughout history has known. This is that people are much more compliant and easily led if you give them an enemy. If a leader can mark another group as "the enemy", then they can focus their group on that enemy, and the group will tend to ignore other problems and issues. This is why politics and religion today is so devisive, with lots of nasty rhetoric and finger pointing. So much of this is going on today that it is becoming common-place, and being devisive and exclusive is becoming more and more normal in our society.
This is another point that will probably get me in trouble. Almost every parent will say this. no matter how bad their parenting experience is turning out to be, they'll all tell you it is worth it. This is because if they were to admit that it wasn't worth it, they would resent their children terribly. This would not make for a good parent. Therefore, convincing yourself that it's worth it is the first step in being a good parent. Once a parent has convinced themselves that it's worth it, many will feel compelled to try and convince you, the childless, that it would be worth it. The childless person should not try and disillusion the parent since the idea that it is worth it is central to being a good parent. Instead, the childless should just smile, agree that the parent is probably right, and then go on planning their next wonderfully quiet child-free vacation that the parent will likely never get to experience. As one of my friends (who had three kids at the time) put it to me a number of years ago .... "We were coming back from a vacation at the beach in Mexico. You could tell all the people on the plane that didn't have kids by the fact that they looked good and relaxed after spending a week on the beach, while all the parents looked bedraggled and worn out. It wasn't fair! I wanted to go and convince them all that they needed to experience having children just so I wouldn't feel so jealous!"
I seriously dislike cliques. They are inevitable, since man's closest relatives, the apes, are troop animals. This means that they live within and identify with a troop of individuals. Any that aren't in their particular troop are outsiders and suspect, or are outright enemies.
Because of this evolutionary background people gravitate toward, and feel most comfortable within, a certain group. In Blade's case, that is the group of non-parents. It is natural to attempt to elevate your own group at the expense of other groups. This is why some individuals always get excessive in their denigration of other groups. You can pick any particular group you like, look it up on the web, and you'll find someone within the group being rude and nasty putting down some other group.
For me, I much prefer being inclusive. My wife never wanted, and so never had any kids. She helped me raise my kids from a previous marriage though. I've got a number of friends within my circle that never had kids. They get along just fine with all of our other friends that do have kids. Of course, none of them are militant child-free types either, as kids are almost always involved in group activities among our friends.
Unfortunately, many of today's "leaders" have discovered what every petty dictator throughout history has known. This is that people are much more compliant and easily led if you give them an enemy. If a leader can mark another group as "the enemy", then they can focus their group on that enemy, and the group will tend to ignore other problems and issues. This is why politics and religion today is so devisive, with lots of nasty rhetoric and finger pointing. So much of this is going on today that it is becoming common-place, and being devisive and exclusive is becoming more and more normal in our society.
This is another point that will probably get me in trouble. Almost every parent will say this. no matter how bad their parenting experience is turning out to be, they'll all tell you it is worth it. This is because if they were to admit that it wasn't worth it, they would resent their children terribly. This would not make for a good parent. Therefore, convincing yourself that it's worth it is the first step in being a good parent. Once a parent has convinced themselves that it's worth it, many will feel compelled to try and convince you, the childless, that it would be worth it. The childless person should not try and disillusion the parent since the idea that it is worth it is central to being a good parent. Instead, the childless should just smile, agree that the parent is probably right, and then go on planning their next wonderfully quiet child-free vacation that the parent will likely never get to experience. As one of my friends (who had three kids at the time) put it to me a number of years ago .... "We were coming back from a vacation at the beach in Mexico. You could tell all the people on the plane that didn't have kids by the fact that they looked good and relaxed after spending a week on the beach, while all the parents looked bedraggled and worn out. It wasn't fair! I wanted to go and convince them all that they needed to experience having children just so I wouldn't feel so jealous!"
Spacesearcher
Member
Blade I couldn't agree more with that last point AP makes
Trying4Baby18
New member
Having children is bloody hard work but for many it is worth it and yes there are other commitments that can be so full on, plenty of people dedicate their lives to one thing or another to the exclusion of all else.
However there are few things, in my experience, that connect you on such an emotional level as having children.
Yeah you might love your cat but you aren't ever going to love it like your son or daughter, the only time some get close is when they are trying to use a pet as a surrogate child anyway.
Your cat dies it makes you sad and you mourn, your child dies and it breaks your world.
However there are few things, in my experience, that connect you on such an emotional level as having children.
Yeah you might love your cat but you aren't ever going to love it like your son or daughter, the only time some get close is when they are trying to use a pet as a surrogate child anyway.
Your cat dies it makes you sad and you mourn, your child dies and it breaks your world.
AnniePretty
New member
It is different because humans are different from bugs. But I meant, but obviously didnt explain, that humans try to make it to be some wonderful, miracle, great thing, (religious people will say gifts from god for example) even as I said a mysterious club that we mere mortals (yeah I think i'll put it that way, because some parents say their genes and dna will live on and they say natural selection will take care of us eebil childfree or child haters so us mere mortals) can NEVER EVER understand, when its not really, since all species reproduce. Its not reproducing that makes you "special" (Gahh, i hate that word)
JonasBrothersFant
New member
And I get what you're saying when you say it that way. You won't find me, personally, telling you how much greater parenting is than what you're doing. I don't feel that way. But the way you express your choice can come off as really hostile. That's all I'm saying. It may be in reaction to something that's been said to you in a similar way. I don't know. But I think your message is getting lost as a result.
YankeeFanForLife
New member
i'm curious what sort of experience/s you had to make you seem to hate the idea of kids so much?
CaressYourWeave
Member
I don't know about anyone else, but preggo women freak the hell out of me. Don't get me wrong I think that having a child would be wonderful, but I can't be in the same room as a woman with a bun in the oven for very long and I just don't know how I'd justify a nine month fishing trip.
To understand this whole thing is you have to understand the purpose of children.
And that is to supply you with grandchildren. Simple as that. I find being a grandparent deeply rewarding, fun and free of the hassle of being a parent.
It gives me the satisfaction of being a non-parent and the satisfaction of have children around but only on a temporary basis. I get to have fun with them, take them places, spoil them and then drop them off at their parents. I also get my alone time and relaxing vacations and quiet dinners out. Life is good.
For example, tonight I will get off work, go home, change to my swimsuit, go to the pool and swim some laps, hang out a bit then go home and have supper.
On the weekend my grandchildren will be over and I'll play in the pool with them.
Best of both worlds.
And that is to supply you with grandchildren. Simple as that. I find being a grandparent deeply rewarding, fun and free of the hassle of being a parent.
It gives me the satisfaction of being a non-parent and the satisfaction of have children around but only on a temporary basis. I get to have fun with them, take them places, spoil them and then drop them off at their parents. I also get my alone time and relaxing vacations and quiet dinners out. Life is good.
For example, tonight I will get off work, go home, change to my swimsuit, go to the pool and swim some laps, hang out a bit then go home and have supper.
On the weekend my grandchildren will be over and I'll play in the pool with them.
Best of both worlds.
I really don't know. It would have to be something that would have happened pretty early. I remember being 3 or 4 and 5 and being disgusted around babies.
Thats assuming that's it. And I have no idea.
Course it might also be like Grasshopper and it just be how we are born. Just like he is. I just don't know.
Thats assuming that's it. And I have no idea.
Course it might also be like Grasshopper and it just be how we are born. Just like he is. I just don't know.
cecoles
New member
Besides not wanting to be a parent your not much into humor either. That's a shame. I can see a life with no children but a life with no humor, so sad.
Please notice the smiley, I am joking and this is used as an indicator. From now on I shall use one when I post humor so the humor deficient can pretend to get it.
Please notice the smiley, I am joking and this is used as an indicator. From now on I shall use one when I post humor so the humor deficient can pretend to get it.
KevinisNOTNova
New member
Blade, I think one of the things that's causing this controversy is different definitions of parent. Your only criteria seems to be reproduction, but that's not the important bit. The important bit is what happens after.
A study does not normally involve emotion or personal experience. And that's the difference between doing and looking in from the sidelines. We can glean insights, understand facts and figures and use our body of evidence to make inferences. But we will never understand the full on assault of the actual emotions felt by a first hand witness.
The closest a non-parent will come to being a parent is being trusted to look after someone else's child on a regular basis. I've done this many times. It's the privilege of being an uncle apparently. And while I can figure out how to keep a child placated for a few hours, simmer down a tantrum or two and generally survive the experience. My responsibilities are temporary.
I can give that child back after a few hours and say "no thank you" the next time around.
A parent doesn't have that luxury. The parent has the full burden of responsibility 24/7 with an unhealthy side order of emotions pulling in all directions while slapping them in the face and kicking them in the groin at the same time. Oh and by-the-way. That child absolutely must have ... ! Make it happen now!
As an uncle I see my nieces and nephews make demands all the time. It's a constant, relentless never ending assault on my sisters emotions. It's easy for me to say "just tell them no". "Say no and mean it, stick to it". As the non-parent I'm not afflicted by the same emotional triggers. But it's clear to me that when my sisters kids make demands of her. There's a whole different array of emotional triggers firing off.
There's a reason why parents always look knackered.
Saying you can understand parenting when you've never been a parent is like saying you know what a banana tastes like when you've never tasted banana.
The closest a non-parent will come to being a parent is being trusted to look after someone else's child on a regular basis. I've done this many times. It's the privilege of being an uncle apparently. And while I can figure out how to keep a child placated for a few hours, simmer down a tantrum or two and generally survive the experience. My responsibilities are temporary.
I can give that child back after a few hours and say "no thank you" the next time around.
A parent doesn't have that luxury. The parent has the full burden of responsibility 24/7 with an unhealthy side order of emotions pulling in all directions while slapping them in the face and kicking them in the groin at the same time. Oh and by-the-way. That child absolutely must have ... ! Make it happen now!
As an uncle I see my nieces and nephews make demands all the time. It's a constant, relentless never ending assault on my sisters emotions. It's easy for me to say "just tell them no". "Say no and mean it, stick to it". As the non-parent I'm not afflicted by the same emotional triggers. But it's clear to me that when my sisters kids make demands of her. There's a whole different array of emotional triggers firing off.
There's a reason why parents always look knackered.
Saying you can understand parenting when you've never been a parent is like saying you know what a banana tastes like when you've never tasted banana.